Request - Can we separate bazaar from normal selling and "make offers"? (1 Viewer)

[Covenant]

Currently a whole lot of bazaar threads are being made from people who refuse to put prices of what they're selling, or even ballpark figures of what they're looking for, in their posts. As of right now there are 18 posts on the front page alone just to give you an idea of how common it is now.

It might just be me but I find them extremely annoying because they almost always follow the same premise: seller either knows their price is high and would be laughed at or they're only interested in a rare chance of someone offering to overpay through being uninformed of the average worth of the item/account or they're looking for a whale who just doesn't care, or it's someone who isn't even interested in selling what they have they're just looking for someone to literally convince them to sell it (this is by far the most annoying to me).

Now you might say "Well Fragments if someone is willing to pay that price then that's the value of it" and we can agree on that, however sellers looking to get lucky shouldn't be clogging up the bazaar and competing with people who are actually selling things by what society has judged to be the best way (prices on things). We don't go to Walmart and find half the stuff on the shelves saying "make offers at register" do we? No, that's stupid. Should Walmart have the right to do that if they wanted? Sure. But they should also realize customers would rather keep the stuff separated for convenience.

I think the options for this would be pretty simple:

Blanket rule to always list a price (or at least a ballpark)
or
A new thread tag called 'Offers' where you must use that tag if you don't set a price
or
A new subforum for nothing but those

Anyway this is just what I feel, it's turned me off from even using baz anymore except to sell my own stuff. I'm open to what anybody else thinks about it too.

 

[Dretski]

I agree. It's a bad part of the market we don't want in the great RG community for the statements above.

 

[Warl0ck45]

heh I actually feel the same way about this for ingame sales.

My server used to have an auction chat channel... so the rest of us didn't have to put up with the endless "Selling 50 things you don't care about!" spam, or folks who refuse to give a price buying or selling.

I am all for haggling, but it has to start someplace.... I don't head into the BMW dealership with $500 in my pocket, nor am I gonna listen to Stan's used cars with $500k as a budget.

_______________

Not that I use the bazaar here but, I can get behind this idea... for what my opinion is worth =)

 

[Sum1]

I agree ... someone recently had like 3 or 4 posts on the front page with nothing but "selling XYZ, PM me" ...

 

[Covenant]

I agree ... someone recently had like 3 or 4 posts on the front page with nothing but "selling XYZ, PM me" ...

This definitely is too but I want to be clear I didn't include those in the count I did so it would be even higher with those added. (Didn't include because they technically could've just replied with their price instead of asking for offers but it's really the same thing in the end)

Any of the proposed fixes I suggested would fix those too though so it's even more of a reason to act.

 

[Hambam]

Agreed!

 

[Redbot]

I think this is a great idea. Putting it on the todo list! (if it's been 1 month since this post plz remind me)

 

[Razkle]

Has it been a month yet? (are we there yet, joke... Dad Jokes, what Christmas's are made of!)

to be constructive though... should be 3 categories...

WTS Taking Offers
WTB Taking Offers

General Listing with Prices

(I guess would could simplify it with simply.. Taking Offers and General Sales)

I for one do both - some I put prices some I take offers and I do not want to change that, but I am happy to put it where it belongs...

 

[Frimp]

It seems the newer generation of gamers are just stupid and/or have no fricking business sense. It extends into the game too- People say WTS soandso item, so we ask how much and they say offer. So I offer X amount of plat, and I get no further response. Don't people know how to fucking negotiate anymore? Its called a counteroffer.

Anyways, I completely agree with you, and I think maybe a help guide should be posted on etiquette for morons so they know how to properly sell or buy stuff.

 

[Sum1]

Anyways, I completely agree with you, and I think maybe a help guide should be posted on etiquette for morons so they know how to properly sell or buy stuff.

Sounds like a goodnight way to contribute! Maybe you'd like to write the guide?

 

[strykers12]

I think this is a great idea. Putting it on the todo list! (if it's been 1 month since this post plz remind me)

Bump

 

[Kyle]

Bump

Need a meme. Someone quick!

 

[rhiza]

the fun part is getting harassed in pm cause my prices are 'too low'

 

[MVP]

It would be nice to see more prices on items. I wouldnt even bother sending a PM to ask.

 

[Razkle]

It would be nice to see more prices on items. I wouldnt even bother sending a PM to ask.

It would be nice if every person who wanted to trade safely in the bazaar was at least a member or better yet, verified! So that we can all trust more and not get scammed, not that YOU are a scammer in anyway but that people who do a websearch and come to try to scam would be stopped. yeah less sales but safer ones! Not enough people are becoming a member to support the site and grow a safe place to trade. Greed apparently wins or loses, not sure the total yet.... If you REALLY want to be safe, become a member today and or get Red Verified and show your support!

 

[1everdude]

As someone who generally doesn't have much idea what various things are worth, seeing more prices so I could get a general idea would certainly be nice.

 

[Razkle]

read the forums, plenty of people post prices. Some stuff is worth less the $100 some is worth $500.... for now, but values change as things happen....

 

[Darkmax]

I read this and just about died laughing -

rhiza said:

the fun part is getting harassed in pm cause my prices are 'too low'

I wasn't laughing because this doesn't happen but because if I ever see anything selling for what I consider "too low" I'm going to grab it up and resell it. Not an issue for the original seller who felt it was a fair price, and a nice profit for me. Of course I also "love" the other side of that coin, people in general who feel the need to complain about someone's "high prices" when they probably have no interest anyway. After all if I heard a commercial listing for something which I thought was too high I'm not going to go yelling about it - I will either just pass on it or try to make a better deal for myself.

 

[Razkle]

I find that about 85% of the time if someone sends me a PM and says, how much for XYZ, that is usually followed by, "That's more then I want to spend" No offence but people are willing to pay for luck/time/loot so they don't have to farm something and it has a value. When the expacs 1st hit that value is much higher. If you want to be dressed like the cool kids, then you gotta put in the work or get out the checkbook. I have both sold and bought the items I want/need and I feel I am always fair. Yeah, I want a good deal and I try to give a good deal. But if YOU looted an item worth $500 why the fuck would you put it up for $100 or expect someone to sell it to you because you offered $100?

Simple rule, if your price is too high.... you wont sell... self correcting problem.

 

[kronolevel]

While I agree everyone should get verified to sell and buy on baz. Dealing with only verified people wont protect you from getting scammed. As we have seen before some verified people who fall on hard times (or god knows what) just stoop low and swing for the fences with a last hoorah before they get sent to ban town.

This whole forcing people to price things is kinda meh.... Some items/fully raid geared toons on the server I play on, Phinigel, really dont have a set value. A fully end game raid geared high AAed toon on Phinigel is very rare. The range it can sell for is very large.

I guess on most servers this may not hold true.

If the majority of items should have a set price then so be it.

The art of the sale is just that, art. Dont hate the artist. Enjoy the creation. Offers are a thing of beauty. I abhor going to Walmart.

The bazaar is a place where people haggle. Offers are essential to haggling.

Go take a look @ the Monty Python life of Bryan haggle scene.

Then maybe you will finally understand that you just dont get it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u75XQdTxZRc

How much quick!? Its for the wife!

Woah woah woah wait a minute! Your supposed to haggle!

Whatever you decide to do - God speed, and best of luck!

I have my own plans for what should happen to the bazaar.

*Insert Evil Laugh here*

 

[Sum1]

I don't think you get the point of including a price. It provides a starting point for negotiations. If you're a seller, it tells potential buyers where your head is, and if you're a buyer, you can get an idea of whether or not the seller is fuckin bonkers or someone willing to actually discuss a real sale. The "send an offer" route I most often go down is I'll send a PM and lowball because I don't want to pay more for an item than I need to (basic economics). Instead of coming back and starting a real discussion, the person supposedly interested in selling will just say "sorry" (if they reply at all), and that's the end of the conversation. It never develops into a discussion/negotiation. There are some exceptions (Raz). That is primarily the frustration encountered with all the "make an offer" posts... they seem to be sellers waiting on someone to toss them a home run gazillion dollar offer rather than someone who's serious about selling items.

 

[strykers12]

I don't think you get the point of including a price. It provides a starting point for negotiations. If you're a seller, it tells potential buyers where your head is, and if you're a buyer, you can get an idea of whether or not the seller is fuckin bonkers or someone willing to actually discuss a real sale. The "send an offer" route I most often go down is I'll send a PM and lowball because I don't want to pay more for an item than I need to (basic economics). Instead of coming back and starting a real discussion, the person supposedly interested in selling will just say "sorry" (if they reply at all), and that's the end of the conversation. It never develops into a discussion/negotiation. There are some exceptions (Raz). That is primarily the frustration encountered with all the "make an offer" posts... they seem to be sellers waiting on someone to toss them a home run gazillion dollar offer rather than someone who's serious about selling items.

this.

OP said it best. bazaar shouldn't be filled with sellers looking for whales.

 

[kronolevel]

The last time I checked the majority of these users are from countries that have freedom, ie the ability to choose for themselves. If people in bazaar want to look for our whales that's their own damned business and none of your concern.

You are going around low balling sellers so they dont want to waste their time with you. That makes perfect sense to me.

Instead of being silly, why not make a reasonable offer? Did you ever think hey, I want this, Ill make a reasonable offer.

If someone is like WTS *insert item you want here* accepting reasonable offers.

And you come up with hey 1 copper in game or 1 cent irl (or something low that you know is low)
Why are you surprised when they dont want to waste their time with you?

Reverse the roles sir. Would you want to waste your time with them?

Have you ever sold anything you owned that you didnt need anymore that was actually worth selling? You get offers from people. You have to talk to them to make a deal. When someone lowballs you an offer you learn not to expend time and energy with them. Its bad enough when the people you spent time with dont show up to pick the item up and buy it.

I am not for or against these changes. I dont really care. I have prices on my stuff 99% of the time. I am not going to sit back and watch as no one gives the other side a voice. Plus freedom is important, starting to put rules on everything is ridiculous. You take all of the art out of it.

 

[Sum1]

You're providing extreme examples to prove a point, but you're failing (imo). I would send a PM and offer 10-15 krono for an item, and they evidently had in their head a number more like 25, but there is no ensuing conversation. That's my point. If you think your EoK ultra-rare is worth 20 krono, but you aren't sure if you can make someone else pay more, just freakin put 20 krono, or put 25. Who cares? But not even having the common decency to respond to someone who made an offer (like in the advertisement) is a little unprofessional.

 

[minniemmee24]

The last time I checked the majority of these users are from countries that have freedom, ie the ability to choose for themselves. If people in bazaar want to look for our whales that's their own damned business and none of your concern.

You are going around low balling sellers so they dont want to waste their time with you. That makes perfect sense to me.

Instead of being silly, why not make a reasonable offer? Did you ever think hey, I want this, Ill make a reasonable offer.

If someone is like WTS *insert item you want here* accepting reasonable offers.

And you come up with hey 1 copper in game or 1 cent irl (or something low that you know is low)
Why are you surprised when they dont want to waste their time with you?

Reverse the roles sir. Would you want to waste your time with them?

Have you ever sold anything you owned that you didnt need anymore that was actually worth selling? You get offers from people. You have to talk to them to make a deal. When someone lowballs you an offer you learn not to expend time and energy with them. Its bad enough when the people you spent time with dont show up to pick the item up and buy it.

I am not for or against these changes. I dont really care. I have prices on my stuff 99% of the time. I am not going to sit back and watch as no one gives the other side a voice. Plus freedom is important, starting to put rules on everything is ridiculous. You take all of the art out of it.

well said!

 

[Razkle]

I am usually real good at letting people know if I already have offers and how much they are for an items if they send me a PM about it. Most times I either get 1 of 2 PMs on items, 1 PM is in the range I was wanting or the other is so low I feel I need to let that person know in a polite way they are never getting that item from any seller at that low price. Like a certain rare I listed that I got 2 offers for $250 and $275 on and some dude sends me a $100 offer.. I tell the $100 guy that the current offer is $250+ and if he wants it he would need to make an offer that is more. I realize I do not set any standard on how things get sold or bought. But I can tell you if I had an offer of say, $500 for an item and you offered me 5 Kronos in a PM, that would be wasting my time and I would simply add you to my list of trolls that I just wont ever reply to. No policy required, I set my own personal ones. This is why I put a warning not to waste my time on my listings, I keep spreadsheets on everything, I am a geek!

Here is a tip for those who claim to not know how much, it is called the "search box".... take time to realize and learn that you are not getting your precious ranger bow for 3 Kronos when others are happy to pay a lot more. If you want your precious you gotta pay or farm one yourself. (honeslty good luck with that though, I farm a lot and I can tell you I have seen 1 TDS Ranger Bow and 1 EoK ranger bow, ever!)

 

[strykers12]

A offer tag or filter is also fine if sellers don't want to price their item

 

[Trish2K]

What I have seen work at least on "Offer" type posts that I think would be appropriate for establishing a common pricing form:

Just specify they list a definite "Buyout Price". This doesn't need to be competitive, it can be whatever the seller wants. Likewise, no one should message or comment on Buyout Prices. Nothing like "You're asking too much, it'll never sell for that." or "I've seen them sell for much less." Remove those posts and issue warnings. Sellers have a right to their own dream buyout prices.

But then also request they list a "Current Offer" tag to filter out some of the back and forth among people who won't ever purchase.

---SEND PMs FOR INFO ---
Current Offer: $ 255
Buyout Price: $ 500


Now, this sets up a little negotiation and wiggle room. People hoping for some very high number can set that price they would be happy with receiving to sell the account immediately.

It also gives individuals a chance to know if they should even express some interest via PM to the seller.

With some users having limited inbox size or number of messages they can send per day, I think this would be beneficial to both buyers and sellers because they can more directly target the purchases they want or can afford.

If there are say, 8 different sellers with vague information posted, like, they all have lvl 60 Necros for sale with similar gear, and they are all asking for buyers to send in offers... well, there may need to be multiple message exchanges between them all to get more information to figure out the value the account is worth to you.


This should in theory cut down on unnecessary communication between buyers and sellers, as well as reduce wait times on getting responses from either party and speeding up the time for sales to be negotiated.

 

[Sum1]

What I have seen work at least on "Offer" type posts that I think would be appropriate for establishing a common pricing form:

Just specify they list a definite "Buyout Price". This doesn't need to be competitive, it can be whatever the seller wants. Likewise, no one should message or comment on Buyout Prices. Nothing like "You're asking too much, it'll never sell for that." or "I've seen them sell for much less." Remove those posts and issue warnings. Sellers have a right to their own dream buyout prices.

But then also request they list a "Current Offer" tag to filter out some of the back and forth among people who won't ever purchase.

---SEND PMs FOR INFO ---
Current Offer: $ 255
Buyout Price: $ 500


Now, this sets up a little negotiation and wiggle room. People hoping for some very high number can set that price they would be happy with receiving to sell the account immediately.

It also gives individuals a chance to know if they should even express some interest via PM to the seller.

With some users having limited inbox size or number of messages they can send per day, I think this would be beneficial to both buyers and sellers because they can more directly target the purchases they want or can afford.

If there are say, 8 different sellers with vague information posted, like, they all have lvl 60 Necros for sale with similar gear, and they are all asking for buyers to send in offers... well, there may need to be multiple message exchanges between them all to get more information to figure out the value the account is worth to you.


This should in theory cut down on unnecessary communication between buyers and sellers, as well as reduce wait times on getting responses from either party and speeding up the time for sales to be negotiated.

I like that idea. It puts the onus on the seller, but it's a clean, efficient way to communicate all the information a buyer needs to make an informed decision and start negotiating.