Discussion - Double xp? (1 Viewer)

[Branson24]

So I’m in a hotzone and killing mobs 1 level below me. when I kill a mob I get the ”party experience (with a bonus)! Message. I have 20% going into AAs. So at 80% I’m getting 0.21% exp per kill. I don’t know the formulas or whether the modifier expands on hot zones but that still seems low. Am I missing something?

 

[ToeJamSamy]

Kinda depends what level you are and what hotzone you're in as they're not all created equal(TSS+zones have always been better than previous expacs, and lowbies get much more xp than high levels) More details would certainly help.

 

[Branson24]

level 78. Killing 77s - the buried sea hotzone

 

[WindowUnit]

Might be other factors you can look at. What's your rate of kill? Do you have 6 characters getting that amount per kill? Can you maintain that rate of kill over an extended period? How does that compare to the last spot you used? Would mobs that are 72-75ish be dying significantly faster?

Also, is there some reason you need 20% going towards AA right now? Would it be more beneficial to use all bonus towards regular exp then focus on AA? I personally can't imagine any scenario where I would choose to put exp into AA at level 78, but I'm sure you've considered yours.

I remember exp slowing down dramatically for me in the 70s, it actually sped back up later on, but 70-85 was the slowest range for me to level through.

 

[Branson24]

Thanks for the thoughts! i guess the question I have boils down to the EQ formula. I‘m running a full group in a hotzone during a double exp period. If the double exp doesn’t stack with the hotzone bonus no problem. If I kill 1 mob, what should be my expected experience gain? 0.20% seems low regardless of it being a hotzone or double exp weekend. I suppose I could go to a different zone and test it but that’s more work than I am willing to put in at the moment. Just an FYI, at 100% into exp and nothing into aa I got 0.31%

 

[Knightly]

Experience modifiers are always calculated from the base. If you have a 50% exp bonus and a 50% potion going, you are at double exp. This means a mob that would normally give you 1000 experience will give you 2000 experience (1000 base + 500 from bonus + 500 from potion). If you are in a hotzone that has a 20% bonus (just pulling a random number) that means you would get 2200 experience (1000 base + 200 hotzone + 500 from bonus + 500 from potion).

However, that doesn't mean the zone you are in is good for your level, the best kill rate for your group, or that you are starting off with a good base amount per mob. That's why people are having trouble answering your question. 1000 exp is a lot at level 1. It's negligible at level 80. The more AAs you have, the less AA catch-up bonus you have. There are a lot of factors in play besides the basic formula and the percentage you get into an AA per kill is not a transferable measurement (though it is useful to you).

 

[ToeJamSamy]

1: it's not double XP, it's 1.5 xp.
2: the fact you're in a group makes an enormous difference
3: everything window unit said about comparing with other zones and other mobs is applicable.
4: ALSO: con the mobs you're killing and make sure they're not the mobs created specifically to be solod
5: while I agree that splitting up should only be used in limited circumstances, especially at levels below 105(where autogrant gives you all but tradeskills aas as you level, as long as you are gold that is) if you are NOT gold @WindowUnit , it may be preferable to keep autogrant off so you can prioritize exactly which few aas you want to purchase. However, that can be done at 5level incremenets or whatever. If you're trying to figure out your xp %, having a split doesn't help anyone.
6: since you are splitting, you never mention how much AA you get per kill
7: in case this is your highest toon- at 115, can get nearly an entire AA per kill, on blue and white mobs with no bonus whatsoever, but yet it'll take 10k mobs to level. More xp on yellows of course, or with bonus or fellowship vitality etc. You'll get almost everything if you just go gold once at say 85-100 and then again at 110-115 til max, using autogrant. If that is your plan, you're wasting time splitting at all. If you don't EVER plan on going gold that's an entirely different story, and your too will be absolutely worthless at max level(or you don't intend to go max level in the first place) due to the cap on bronze and silver accounts and the 39-58k aas each class has. Remember as you level, aas get faster and reg xp gets slower. Every single level.

Was another thing but i forgot while typing lol

 

[ToeJamSamy]

Experience modifiers are always calculated from the base. If you have a 50% exp bonus and a 50% potion going, you are at double exp. This means a mob that would normally give you 1000 experience will give you 2000 experience (1000 base + 500 from bonus + 500 from potion). If you are in a hotzone that has a 20% bonus (just pulling a random number) that means you would get 2200 experience (1000 base + 200 hotzone + 500 from bonus + 500 from potion).

However, that doesn't mean the zone you are in is good for your level, the best kill rate for your group, or that you are starting off with a good base amount per mob. That's why people are having trouble answering your question. 1000 exp is a lot at level 1. It's negligible at level 80. The more AAs you have, the less AA catch-up bonus you have. There are a lot of factors in play besides the basic formula and the percentage you get into an AA per kill is not a transferable measurement (though it is useful to you).

From what I've seen, hotzone xp gets treated like base xp, and the gamewide bonuses get figured first. I have not seen additive so much as multiplicative, bit things may have changed. A 50% bonus with a lesson has always given 300% total(not 300% bonus of course, but 200% bonus on top of the base) now I haven't paid much attention to that since I came back so it's entirely possible that's changed in the last 7-8 years, but that is what I've both seen and been told, in the past.

The biggest mistake is that people assume bonus weekends are double and that throws off all perspective. So what this guy's is looking for is 220 or 240% xp when he should only be seeing 170-180(and he won't see anything at all if he wasn't there prior to bonus 3 weeks ago, or again before the zone became hot at all much longer) The big issues here are that he doesn't know the bonus is only 50% not 100, and is trying to backwards engineer the base xp from that.

OP: if you want to answer your own question, kill 10-20 mobs, all same type and level, and average out their xp. Then, pop your LOTD which IS double XP, and repeat the process. Compare results.

Update: just tested, and I am still getting 300% xp on lesson with the xpbonus.

 

[Branson24]

great info ya’ll! I guess I was expecting it to be a bit more impactful. I assumed that killing mobs 1 level below me would yield a certain percentage of xp. other games I’ve played worked like that. 1000 xp for like level. The -100 each level below me and +100 for each level above. So I thought it would be similar to that and then with the hotzone bonus plus the xp bonus during the event I hoped it would work out to more than .31% per kill at no AA split. EQ has too many variables for it to be that simple from what you guys are saying though. I’ll just change to a newer expac zone that has a higher modifier. Thanks again for the anwers!

 

[ToeJamSamy]

Thanks *TBS* hotzone is probably best you'll get without the difficulty and thus time to kill increased more than the xp. If you can plow through lightblues it might net more xp over time, assuming same base xp. Thing is that eqs levels get longer and longer and longer so while level 1-2 might've been 500 xp, 10 is like 5000, 20 is like 50000 and so on. Probably not quite so exponential, but it could be too. Other than the first mob you kill if in tutorial, your first level lasts several kills or more depending on zone, the next takes several more etc etc. A mob may have a set number of xp points(something they don't directly show us, but I've seen in at least 1 iteration of mq2, maybe still avail) but the mob level vs your level determines how much of that xp you get, as well as what level you are determining how much you need. AAs otoh, are set to take the same xp as level 51. Period. So the closer to 51 you are the longer an AA takes, the farther from 51, the faster. My test earlier was really on headshotting neriads in the new cobalt scar(full player group of 6 with no fellowship bonus). The neriads can pop as white or blue at 115, though I never watched their exact level, I have watched the as xp and that's always been the same so long as I didn't kill a siren insteadetc, and I only compare blues, so I assume they're all the same level. I've killed thousands of these while camping a no lore Aug for my group(I'm nowhere near done or it'd be tens of thousands) so I know that normally I get 1 as per kill, no more though I think some of the blues do give a little less(probably other mobs, but never more with zero bonuses in effect) Today testing, every single one gave exactly 3 aas, not a % more or less. I was watching initially before I popped lesson because I wanted to see where my fellowship xp had gone or of it was just invisible. (The answer is that it was just gone: I accidentally capped my reg xp with overseer after capping my fellowship vitality, and then the vitality disappeared. After killing myself a few times, I was hoping the vitality would return, but it did not) Before lesson: 150% as perkill in a sixman group of 115s.
For a little perspective, level 111-115 I watched reg xp once in a while as I killed about half white and half 113 and 114 dbs. It was so little I had to count mobs between xp% changes, as in, the xp per kill was below .01%, at least on blues. Whites might've been .01, I forget. This is killing white and blue at 115. Think the final figure works out to between 50 and 100,000 mobs from 114-115, if you kill 115s. So, that figure should tell you at least my earlier example was way off lol. If you figure in number of aas per kill, which there averaged about .87aa or 87% of an AA, on blues, and it takes 100,000 kills to reach the next level, then level 115 is 87000 times the size of level 51, because the number kills for the entire level is 100000 and in 100000 kills you'd get 87000 AAs, which equal level 51 once you're beyond the 4k limit for bonus. Obviously that is not quite the size, as I said between 50 and 100k, I'd lean closer to 50-60 mark, but the only way to really test that would be to take 2 toons in a full group. One set 100% AA, with starting total marked. One at 100% reg at the instant he hits 115(via kills, not tasks as those are bigger). You wouldn't have to do the entire level, but 10,20% of it and compare to the AA count and extrapolate.

As I mentioned, below 4k AAs gets a bonus. The way that supposedly works is that your first aa is five times as fast(500%) and your 4000 is 100%. Idk if you can bank at 3999 and keep bonus til full or what, but the honusbis linear so you'd barely gan anything. At 2000 AA should be getting either 300% because that is halfway between 500 and 100. At 1000 it'd be 400% and at 3000, 200%.

There is 1 other facet to aa xp though, and that is that it caps at 5 aa per kill, so if you have zero aas, and the mobs you kill would net you 1 aa normally(say at 115 we kill the neriads I previously mentioned, 1 with AA over 4k, and 1 with zero to start, though that'd take some serious determination not to autogrant even once or pop on to be even remotely useful otw to 115)
popping lesson on aaxp is a waste.

In such circumstance, where a kill without any bonus(i.e. over 4k aas, no lesson, though the bonus in game now doesn't matter because every mob is affected) nets 1 aa perkill. At 0 AA you go 100% to regular xp, 0 to aa. At 1000 aas, you have to split I think 60% to AA max(60% times 2= 120%, then times 400%=480% or 4.8aas.) At 2k, 80% to AA works, because 1.6aa per kill times 300%, is 480% or 4.8 AA again. At 2500aas, the bonus should be 250%(total per kill not binus. Bonus itself would be 150%) thus 1 kill times 2.5 times double means at 1 kill per AA without bonuses, you can safely switch to full AA at 2500 aas and still pop a lesson. Now it's possible that xp beyond the 5aa cap would go to regular, as it does when aa bank is maxed, but idk for sure. This is just to demonstrate the math to keep in mind if you are low as and popping a lesson, particularly in bonus xp, because of that pesky cap per kill.

That shouldn't be too big concern at your current level, UNLESS you have fellowship vitality and/or Unless someone is powerlevelling your aas(something I used to do for your level a lot) you could very easily get 1+ as per kill, even 2 or 3+ without any other bonus, depending on the mobs being killed.

Now that there's autogrant there's no purpose behind aa powerlevelling but if you don't intend to ever use autogrant, you could probably find an sk or similar to draw some green-to-them swarms with you in group, but be prepared to spend them very quickly. When I did it before the low-aa bonus even went into effect, the AA bank would max out multiple times in a pull. It's more effective, if killing the same mobs the whole time, to do aas first then level, because you get more per kill while the number of kills to level will be the same no matter how many aas you get first. The aa bank has grown since then, but I don't think much at 78 or whatever. Sometimes to be nice(because there was plenty of vendor trash to sell) and sometimes when someone offered to pay I'd do this other than for my own toons. For my own toons it got interesting because I didn't have a bigger cap nor autospend so I had to prepare ahead of time so while switching targets every .3 seconds or so and whatever else might hasten killing, I'd have the mouse on the next computer hovering over the buy all button(ok, buy. Buy all didn't exist yet either) for the most expensive as in line so as not to waste any of the 100+ kills per pull. 100+ kills in a pull, with a 30aa storage cap. Killing level 83-85 ish mobs iirc(I know at 99 they were all still green but at 100 they went great so I'd pop the raid version, which raised mob level just enough to be green and even some LB again) at 90 I'd take in level 75s, at 95 it'd be 80s, at 100 I think I could bring in 70s because it was raid but I forget. In a static zone you don't have the same limitations as instanced, but there aren't as many good places(the same zone, static, was much worse to swarm than the instance because of nameds that would start summoning if you didn't harmtouchem otw by so as not to stop. Swarming: something you'll never get to experience in all it's glory, but it does still work, to a lesser degree.

Rambling. Nostalgia. I miss swarming lol. Every year upon expac release I'd go to the exact same zone for 4 years in a row(level didn't increase every year) maybe 5, to race to max level first on server, or max as first on server. I won both all but once of those years, but it was only a few minutes difference, and another so in the same zone. I didn't feel quite as bad, he had the next tierhigher raid 2h than I did so he could kill faster, but I don't think anyone could start at questgiver to looting all the mobs in less time because I did it so much and in races. Also used it during a bet with an old notorious ranger from...well many servers since he got banned from many guilds and most hated him lol..and I say old because it was a long time ago, he was only a teenager. Made a race 1 to 75 max aa AND 2.0d toon from scratch. Can't remember rid the bet was specifically an sk or if I just picked that to have a lower level powerlevelling tool. Once I won I made sure to maxgear her in all the best solteris-sof raid gear too. Man that cost me a lot in amalgamator etc parts lol. Kinda miss Leafslasher too. I know I'm far from the only one here who remembers that little shit lol

 

[Branson24]

Thanks hotzone is probably best you'll get without the difficulty and thus time to kill increased more than the xp. If you can plow through lightblues it might net more xp over time, assuming same base xp. Thing is that eqs levels get longer and longer and longer so while level 1-2 might've been 500 xp, 10 is like 5000, 20 is like 50000 and so on. Probably not quite so exponential, but it could be too. Other than the first mob you kill if in tutorial, your first level lasts several kills or more depending on zone, the next takes several more etc etc. A mob may have a set number of xp points(something they don't directly show us, but I've seen in at least 1 iteration of mq2, maybe still avail) but the mob level vs your level determines how much of that xp you get, as well as what level you are determining how much you need. AAs otoh, are set to take the same xp as level 51. Period. So the closer to 51 you are the longer an AA takes, the farther from 51, the faster. My test earlier was really on headshotting neriads in the new cobalt scar(full player group of 6 with no fellowship bonus). The neriads can pop as white or blue at 115, though I never watched their exact level, I have watched the as xp and that's always been the same so long as I didn't kill a siren insteadetc, and I only compare blues, so I assume they're all the same level. I've killed thousands of these while camping a no lore Aug for my group(I'm nowhere near done or it'd be tens of thousands) so I know that normally I get 1 as per kill, no more though I think some of the blues do give a little less(probably other mobs, but never more with zero bonuses in effect) Today testing, every single one gave exactly 3 aas, not a % more or less. I was watching initially before I popped lesson because I wanted to see where my fellowship xp had gone or of it was just invisible. (The answer is that it was just gone: I accidentally capped my reg xp with overseer after capping my fellowship vitality, and then the vitality disappeared. After killing myself a few times, I was hoping the vitality would return, but it did not) Before lesson: 150% as perkill in a sixman group of 115s.
For a little perspective, level 111-115 I watched reg xp once in a while as I killed about half white and half 113 and 114 dbs. It was so little I had to count mobs between xp% changes, as in, the xp per kill was below .01%, at least on blues. Whites might've been .01, I forget. This is killing white and blue at 115. Think the final figure works out to between 50 and 100,000 mobs from 114-115, if you kill 115s. So, that figure should tell you at least my earlier example was way off lol. If you figure in number of aas per kill, which there averaged about .87aa or 87% of an AA, on blues, and it takes 100,000 kills to reach the next level, then level 115 is 87000 times the size of level 51, because the number kills for the entire level is 100000 and in 100000 kills you'd get 87000 AAs, which equal level 51 once you're beyond the 4k limit for bonus. Obviously that is not quite the size, as I said between 50 and 100k, I'd lean closer to 50-60 mark, but the only way to really test that would be to take 2 toons in a full group. One set 100% AA, with starting total marked. One at 100% reg at the instant he hits 115(via kills, not tasks as those are bigger). You wouldn't have to do the entire level, but 10,20% of it and compare to the AA count and extrapolate.

As I mentioned, below 4k AAs gets a bonus. The way that supposedly works is that your first aa is five times as fast(500%) and your 4000 is 100%. Idk if you can bank at 3999 and keep bonus til full or what, but the honusbis linear so you'd barely gan anything. At 2000 AA should be getting either 300% because that is halfway between 500 and 100. At 1000 it'd be 400% and at 3000, 200%.

There is 1 other facet to aa xp though, and that is that it caps at 5 aa per kill, so if you have zero aas, and the mobs you kill would net you 1 aa normally(say at 115 we kill the neriads I previously mentioned, 1 with AA over 4k, and 1 with zero to start, though that'd take some serious determination not to autogrant even once or pop on to be even remotely useful otw to 115)
popping lesson on aaxp is a waste.

In such circumstance, where a kill without any bonus(i.e. over 4k aas, no lesson, though the bonus in game now doesn't matter because every mob is affected) nets 1 aa perkill. At 0 AA you go 100% to regular xp, 0 to aa. At 1000 aas, you have to split I think 60% to AA max(60% times 2= 120%, then times 400%=480% or 4.8aas.) At 2k, 80% to AA works, because 1.6aa per kill times 300%, is 480% or 4.8 AA again. At 2500aas, the bonus should be 250%(total per kill not binus. Bonus itself would be 150%) thus 1 kill times 2.5 times double means at 1 kill per AA without bonuses, you can safely switch to full AA at 2500 aas and still pop a lesson. Now it's possible that xp beyond the 5aa cap would go to regular, as it does when aa bank is maxed, but idk for sure. This is just to demonstrate the math to keep in mind if you are low as and popping a lesson, particularly in bonus xp, because of that pesky cap per kill.

That shouldn't be too big concern at your current level, UNLESS you have fellowship vitality and/or Unless someone is powerlevelling your aas(something I used to do for your level a lot) you could very easily get 1+ as per kill, even 2 or 3+ without any other bonus, depending on the mobs being killed.

Now that there's autogrant there's no purpose behind aa powerlevelling but if you don't intend to ever use autogrant, you could probably find an sk or similar to draw some green-to-them swarms with you in group, but be prepared to spend them very quickly. When I did it before the low-aa bonus even went into effect, the AA bank would max out multiple times in a pull. It's more effective, if killing the same mobs the whole time, to do aas first then level, because you get more per kill while the number of kills to level will be the same no matter how many aas you get first. The aa bank has grown since then, but I don't think much at 78 or whatever. Sometimes to be nice(because there was plenty of vendor trash to sell) and sometimes when someone offered to pay I'd do this other than for my own toons. For my own toons it got interesting because I didn't have a bigger cap nor autospend so I had to prepare ahead of time so while switching targets every .3 seconds or so and whatever else might hasten killing, I'd have the mouse on the next computer hovering over the buy all button(ok, buy. Buy all didn't exist yet either) for the most expensive as in line so as not to waste any of the 100+ kills per pull. 100+ kills in a pull, with a 30aa storage cap. Killing level 83-85 ish mobs iirc(I know at 99 they were all still green but at 100 they went great so I'd pop the raid version, which raised mob level just enough to be green and even some LB again) at 90 I'd take in level 75s, at 95 it'd be 80s, at 100 I think I could bring in 70s because it was raid but I forget. In a static zone you don't have the same limitations as instanced, but there aren't as many good places(the same zone, static, was much worse to swarm than the instance because of nameds that would start summoning if you didn't harmtouchem otw by so as not to stop. Swarming: something you'll never get to experience in all it's glory, but it does still work, to a lesser degree.

Rambling. Nostalgia. I miss swarming lol. Every year upon expac release I'd go to the exact same zone for 4 years in a row(level didn't increase every year) maybe 5, to race to max level first on server, or max as first on server. I won both all but once of those years, but it was only a few minutes difference, and another so in the same zone. I didn't feel quite as bad, he had the next tierhigher raid 2h than I did so he could kill faster, but I don't think anyone could start at questgiver to looting all the mobs in less time because I did it so much and in races. Also used it during a bet with an old notorious ranger from...well many servers since he got banned from many guilds and most hated him lol..and I say old because it was a long time ago, he was only a teenager. Made a race 1 to 75 max aa AND 2.0d toon from scratch. Can't remember rid the bet was specifically an sk or if I just picked that to have a lower level powerlevelling tool. Once I won I made sure to maxgear her in all the best solteris-sof raid gear too. Man that cost me a lot in amalgamator etc parts lol. Kinda miss Leafslasher too. I know I'm far from the only one here who remembers that little shit lol

Damn fine post sir. Hats off to you

 

[ToeJamSamy]

Damn fine post sir. Hats off to you

I needs to go edit the first word. Stupid Auto complete lol.
"Thanks" should be "TBS"