Question - Need help figuring out what to box with my BST (1 Viewer)

[wakeup]

I'm about to start playing again and need some class advice. BST main, BRD/ENCH, DRU/SHM/CLR on 3 accounts and all toons are lvl 100+ I see a lot of people recommend anything/ENCH/DRU which I'm sure works fine. I also got advice of BST/BRD/SHM because BST benefits more from melee buffs and mercs are decreasing over time in effectiveness. I personally lean toward BST/BRD/DRU but I'm wondering if that leaves
something I'm unaware of. I'm just not sure what's best in the current state of the game. I hear dichotomics mentioned a bit in people's reasoning but I don't fully understand. I'd also like to hear opinions on CLR in a 3 box.

 

[toots]

I would probably do the BST/BRD/DRU, although druids don't really play nicely with macros (too much switching between healing and dps). The sham seems a little redundant for group content with the beast, so maybe a cleric in the third spot would be good(combat rez is nice!). Or level up a mage/nec and have a backup pet tank.

 

[Sum1]

Mage, Beast, Bard would be pretty awesome... if you wanted to level up a Mage.

 

[Meistro]

1st Q: All all-access an J5 mercs?
2nd Q: Plan on Pet Tank, or Bst?

Seeing as you sound like you only want to 3box, and seem to want the Bst/Pet tank I would suggest Bst/Enc/Druid with 2 DPS (and be capable of switching between melees and casters) and 1 Cleric merc (or you could merc tank, but...).

Reasons:
Bst:
Carries most of the Shm line of spells so can basically cover that.
Pet (especially if give it gear) can be a monster, can hold agro decently.
Can "patch" heal group and REALLY heal pet.
Pet buffs give alot of options.
Can melee, nuke, and/or dot as needed.

Enc:
Pet class (2ndary pet tank, added melee dps.
Crowd Control
Caster (looks less bot-like than melee, added caster dps)
Good debuffs/slows

Dru:
Back up or main healer (with MQ2Heals plugin, can heal very well)
Ports/evac (Who doesn't want those)
Decent DPS (nukes and/or dots and even possible melee)
Buffs (skin, ds)
SNARE

Cleric merc:
Heasl well (if J5)
Cleric buffs

Other Mercs:
Can give you the versitility of melee or caster DPS, more heals or even a Tankish type.

Future thoughts:
Sk/Pally/War for Tanks
Mage for Pet Tank/Dps, Pet kits, CoH
Wiz MASSIVE DPS
REAL Cleric ...betrer heals, combat rez...

 

[wakeup]

1st Q: All all-access an J5 mercs?
2nd Q: Plan on Pet Tank, or Bst?

Yes I tend to use 2 dps mercs and a healer merc. all j5. Pet tanks mostly, but BST seems to tank nameds better as long as I pop all my discs. This is in Gribble HAs though. TBM crypt attunement b quest ate my group alive when I used BST105 Bard101 and druid 100

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Future thoughts:
Sk/Pally/War for Tanks
Mage for Pet Tank/Dps, Pet kits, CoH
Wiz MASSIVE DPS
REAL Cleric ...betrer heals, combat rez...

Am I setting myself up for hardship with a BST or pet tank over a plate tank class?

 

[Meistro]

Yes I tend to use 2 dps mercs and a healer merc. all j5. Pet tanks mostly, but BST seems to tank nameds better as long as I pop all my discs. This is in Gribble HAs though. TBM crypt attunement b quest ate my group alive when I used BST105 Bard101 and druid 100

Using MQ2Heals, my shaman was able to keep my Bst alive (no mercs) in temple b as long as i single pulled (or chanter mezzed) and stayed away from the (red) golems (all 105 TBM Tear1 group geared/auged, max AA). I assume a Druid and merc could do similar.

Could always add a 2nd cleric merc, one on reactive the other balanced. I know a guy who molos temple b with bst (started at 75, is now mid 90s...no MQ2). but its all in how well you know your toons and what gear/level your at ( and how well your macros/plugins are tweeked).

Lvl/AA the druid and get CC that can handle the lvls (105s+) and I think you'll do just fine (just make sure your highest lvl merc is the one used for cleric (duh...I know).

bard or enc either works, im just partial to pet classes, but CC is key.

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Am I setting myself up for hardship with a BST or pet tank over a plate tank class?

High end, possibly. But with the tools available thru MQ2, you should do well.

 

[Rustycat]

Beastlords are a special nitch class character that is a jack of all trades. You have to decide how you want to focus his strength individually and what kind of content you intend to put your 3 box against. My main is a BST and I went to an extreme tank build and development format which has struggles depending on what you're trying to tank against especially at the higher end game content. I used to box as a dual of bst/drd later a trio of bst/drd/clr mostly due to me getting clr account handed to me at the time. The druid is a great match up with teh beast as you can heal or dps focus. I never had issues using Raiddruid effectively to heal and dps at the same time and currently use kiss with as much success. If you're going to try and fight higher level mobs, you will want a cleric for heals as nothing is going to save your ass any better when the shit gets real. Diong that won't give you any CC and if you get high level adds, you're going to wipe. If you can pick good camps to avoid the adds, the clr/drd will keep you going but dps will be hindered. If you keep mobs you're fighting in check, the bard will be the greatest asset. You will have CC ability, early slow/debuffs withpulls and then melee songs to buff the dps of the BST and his pet. Be sure your have the invigorating buffs on your pet btw, that HoTT heal factor is huge and helpful.

 

[wakeup]

Beastlords are a special nitch class character that is a jack of all trades. You have to decide how you want to focus his strength individually and what kind of content you intend to put your 3 box against. My main is a BST and I went to an extreme tank build and development format which has struggles depending on what you're trying to tank against especially at the higher end game content. I used to box as a dual of bst/drd later a trio of bst/drd/clr mostly due to me getting clr account handed to me at the time. The druid is a great match up with teh beast as you can heal or dps focus. I never had issues using Raiddruid effectively to heal and dps at the same time and currently use kiss with as much success. If you're going to try and fight higher level mobs, you will want a cleric for heals as nothing is going to save your ass any better when the shit gets real. Diong that won't give you any CC and if you get high level adds, you're going to wipe. If you can pick good camps to avoid the adds, the clr/drd will keep you going but dps will be hindered. If you keep mobs you're fighting in check, the bard will be the greatest asset. You will have CC ability, early slow/debuffs withpulls and then melee songs to buff the dps of the BST and his pet. Be sure your have the invigorating buffs on your pet btw, that HoTT heal factor is huge and helpful.

Do you think CLR pacify pulling is good enough to get by without the CC class? If so, I might do BST WIZ CLR

 

[Warl0ck45]

Obvious thing but just to be sure it is mentioned, get the best pet focus item you can.

Pet focus was kinda squished out/nerfed a while back, but every little bit helps. The best group drop item currently is in Crypt of Sul called "Shade's Phase". It off a mean ass camp that needs CC...just FYI.

As for group make up... entirely depends on what you want. I am one of the weirdos with an army of alts to mix and match the group make up, and have access to friends accounts to extend that pool of possibilities even farther. I generally like to run with 2 potential tanks... whether they be pet or plate. Had it too often where a tank can be dead/out of play and wipe the rest of the group with out a back up (mez/stun/charm/surge DPS faster then heals, what ever).... and I look at healers the same way (either 2 healing classes or one with a back up cleric merc) But then I am in no hurry to get things dead ASAP, but like to live through the fight =)

As Rusty said there, you can make a BL tank work... but it involves some time investment in learning the class well, and tweaking your stuff.

I have used both RD and KISS as my healer macros and both do well, after spending a bit of time making sure things are tweaked to where I want them. Since each group make up is a little different, each healer's INI may need fine tuning to fit the group you have them playing in, along with their capabilities. (Tinkering now with getting more cleric stuff put into RD, though I really ought to get this PC authorized so I can download an RG compile for it.)

I currently have a friends BL I am using with RD and just getting over 104. His gear is still blah and barely anything over autogrant just yet, but his pet has handled adds and pulls aggro well enough when I turn taunt on (gearing him up while leveling in TBM) and is using a focus from Shard's Landing still. It can be a slow process with a lot of bumps and deaths along the way, but I find it fun to see what works and what doesn't, along with seeing what other folks have figured out as well =)

Working out a 3 toon combo can be rough... there is always that fight that seems exactly designed to not work well with your combo, heh. (Hence my obsessions with having a lot of options =P ) Sorry I tend to talk a lot of times....Anyways... how I figure out group make up is figuring out strength and weaknesses and then matching what I plan to do with the toons best suited. For instance, if you plan to use a cleric merc + healer, I would recommend a druid or shaman (the shaman being the better healer IMHO, with speed group heal + group heal + AE healing wave + group HoT) Or.. if you are finding that is not enough , a live cleric will out heal a dru/sha and for longer.

Both dru/sha classes get a form of push-root (paralytic spores/spray) and so can help with CC if your enc/bard is having issues (provided the target can be rooted of course) with shaman getting the second line of single push-root (Virulent Paralysis) and when the cleric merc is staying on top of the healing, the toons can assist with DPS.

As for bard or enchanter... both do well as enhancing the groups capabilities in thier own ways, and CC. Again, kinda depends on what you are needing. Bard are limited in how many they can lock down continuously compared to an enchanter.... but they are excellent puller and can reduce the need for mezzing in the first place. An enchanter is more... straight forward in setting up. Sorta lock N load then forget, heh. You can do the same with bards, but it kinda depends on whose macro you are using and how well you set it up... bards to to shine best when played live I find.

Course.. just my opinions tossed in the mix =)

 

[wakeup]

I want to thank everyone who has replied so far. You've all given me a lot to think about. Anyone want to weigh in on BST BRD MAG? I realize it's pretty good, but no one has talked about it in depth.

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Enc:
Pet class (2ndary pet tank, added melee dps.
Crowd Control
Caster (looks less bot-like than melee, added caster dps)
Good debuffs/slows

Are you meaning charm pet?

 

[Meistro]

No, Enc summon pet with AA's has some good capabilities, if you put gear on it, and buff it, it can handle a bit of damage until you can get things under control; especially if you are pet tanking and main pet tank goes down, it can handle the mob while you "unsummon" the other pet (if your pettanking, i hope your pettank pc has put 2nd buffed/geared pet in its pocket for just such an emergency).

Bst, Bard, Mage:
With using mercs, it can be a good combo, lots of DPS and versitility.
You would have the 2 best pets in game, lots of buffs for them. Not sure how mercs are for healing pets, I think they do it, but i think PC takes priority. (remember to block all the unwanted healing type spells on all PCs and pets).

here is a good guide to merc clerics:
Do you have problems with your Cleric Mercenary Healing? FIX Included!
And I'd at least start by running 2 cleric mercs.

 

[Warl0ck45]

when they were playing around with pet focus, they were also making some significant changes to everyone's pets... how they take in damage, how much of a boost from focus items they get, was some extensive tweaking done serverside. At the end of it though , enchanter pets got to be pretty beefy compared to what they used to be. They can go toe-to-toe with current content mobs ( albiet less so then necro or mage pets) It takes a bit of work to build all the AA's, but my enchanter's pet has handled trash mobs till they are dead when something has happened to the main tank before.. as well as stood up to a named for a while. Even SK pets are fairly beefy now... and while they wont take out current content... they are definitely a much bigger speedbump then before... mobs got to put some work into killing them off.

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BST/BRD/MAG combo.

First off... mage pets kick ass, as before all the tweaking... were being used to tank raid mobs for some raids (of if your raid tank was too gimpy) after the changes they stilll kick ass, but require significantly more healing then before (from a raid perspective) Group play though... slightly more healing then before but nothing more then was to be expected (mage pets were overpowered after all.. SOMETHING was going to happen! =P)

To put it into perspective (and this is just my opinion) you got merc tanks.... then mage pets... then live warriors. SK/PAL/Mage pets are roughly on the same tier for tanking.. depending on the AA and skill of the SK/PAL.

BL pets are... funky. Toe-to-toe they are not as tanky as mage pets....but make up for it with all the buffage they have on to enhance their abilities (and which ones you maintain on your pet). BL pets will proc a lot more damage (specially if they have pet toys, heh)

The two classes will work well together (again just my opinion) with the mage providing the tank, plus needed tools for the pet tank, and the BL providing the back up tank plus the buffage that stacks with cleric mercs, and other useful stuff like slow, and ability to FD pull.

Bard's... are just always an awesome addition to any group, and will do well boosting caster and melee, whether you go with rogue or wizard mercs. (BTW, wizard mercs seem to do more DPS, till they run outa mana, with rogue DPS working even if they are out of endurance. Plus in a pinch the rogue can tank while you pop out another pet if needed) Fair warning... if you plan to leave your bard at camp...it will draw aggro as your puller gets with in song range (if you have rest songs enabled) one of the annoying things about leveling a bard... either not using rest songs or wearing out the rez stick, heh.

Are there certain aspects you are looking for or want to know more about?

 

[wakeup]

Are there certain aspects you are looking for or want to know more about?

That was a wealth of information about that combo. Thank you. I do have a question. Why is necro always a 2nd consideration behind mage? Is a necro roughly the same quality of box as mage if you get your mage buddy to summon pet gear for you?

 

[Warl0ck45]

Necro's are an awesome powerhouse of utility and DPS, but need fights to last a while to really shine.

Necro pets are just under mage pets as far as tanking goes. If both pets have the same gear, the necro pet will take in slightly more damage over time then the mage pet... and do slightly less to the target, depending on which mage pet you are using. Mage earth pet for best tanking (and root) air pet is more "group friendly" with the stuns (which wont work on named) which handles tanking slightly less, but has more DPS. I find Necro warrior pets to be roughly on par with mage air pets as far as tanking... maybe slightly less.

Anyways, necros bring snare to the table (while mage's noticably lack it, root pet is not always dependable) along with mez (up to certain levels) push-root like DRU/SHM, slow if needed, among other things.

I played a necro main with a 3 account group for a good long time, had a lot of fun with it. While necros get the nerf hammer again and again, they are still an awesome class with lotsa tricks. If you look over Allakhazam, the pictures submited for Named mobs, a lot of them are first kills sent in by necros soloing/moloing the mobs, especially before the mage pets got to be overpowered =) There is a lot of tricks necros can pull off to help a fight going south.

But to put things into perspective... necros take time to build DPS via DoTs, but come with uber mana regen capabilities. Ideally use with mobs that take a little while to kill, or your necro isn't holding his end of the DPS up. Mages of course deal with nukes and so thier is much more instant, which works better if your targets are dieing fast.

If you are looking at it strictly from a automated box toon perspective though, and wanting to pet tank... Mages pet tank better and come with better pet heals. Both are easy enough to set up, but you will have to work a little harder to heal a necro pet, depending on your group make up.

(Sorry, don't mean to monopolize the post)

 

[wakeup]

I appreciate the time you take responding. It definitely helps me figure out where classes are in relation to others. Ultimately it lets me make better choices on my composition. So Thank you.