Discussion - Nitch EQ Heal Team - MAG/CLR/CLR/DRD/SHM/NEC (1 Viewer)

[Rustycat]

So all, I'm developing a special team that I do not expect to be a high DPS by any means. It's true purpose is for more raid event content than grouping but need it will have to stand on it's own along the way as well. I'm looking for feedback and things to be aware of as I have little to no experience playing a MAG or a NEC at any level of competence. The team make up is as follows:

MAG - Pet is to tank and mage do mage things with dps.
CLR - Primary healer typical for any group
CLR - DPS mode doing reverse dmg shields and nuke oriented stuff
DRD - DPS mode dots, nukes and snares (super low patch heal will be added, like 20% etc)
SHM - DPS/Debuffs mode (heals only in similar to DRD situation)
NEC - DPS mode and mana feeding

I want to actually group them once formed up and geared to run. Their end purpose is to fulfill raid level heal chain supplements using the CHChain.mac project that's in the works. Those of you with experience in teh MAG, NEC and SHM classes, can you advise any concerns, tweaks, tips and tricks to work with a group like this?

Thank you,

-Rustycat

 

[nyghteyes]

So I attempted the same thing and ended up needing either a group and a half to 2 groups.

I started with War/Clr/Brd/Mag/Enc/Dru

This group lives through the most amazing circumstances though if the chanter drops group 2 better be ready to pick up the adds.

When I started group 2 I was surprised how gimped it felt compared to what I survived with group 1

Group 2
Sk/Shm/Rog/Mag/Clr/Clr

I do swap out cleric 3 for a wizard if I'm not doing anything ridiculous. This allows group 3 to be Nec/Nec/Clr/Mag/Wiz


I know you mentioned trying this with 1 group but figured I drop off my exp at the same attempt. Though I'm not F2P and am on TLP so the difference is probably worlds apart but I would think that you will not be able to break the regen of most bosses 15 levels below you or so in most cases with 1 group. Though you will probably live for hours =p I think you will need atleast 2 or 3 toons to chase around the main group.

I dont think you will find the mag a reasonable option for main tanking on raid bosses as they direct all the hate from the pet to the caster now (Raid bosses only). Before my first group was solid that is what I used and found it to be very difficult. So you should probably go SK for pulling/tanking. War defensive is hard to beat tho...

 

[Rustycat]

So I attempted the same thing and ended up needing either a group and a half to 2 groups.

I started with War/Clr/Brd/Mag/Enc/Dru

This group lives through the most amazing circumstances though if the chanter drops group 2 better be ready to pick up the adds.

When I started group 2 I was surprised how gimped it felt compared to what I survived with group 1

Group 2
Sk/Shm/Rog/Mag/Clr/Clr

I do swap out cleric 3 for a wizard if I'm not doing anything ridiculous. This allows group 3 to be Nec/Nec/Clr/Mag/Wiz


I know you mentioned trying this with 1 group but figured I drop off my exp at the same attempt. Though I'm not F2P and am on TLP so the difference is probably worlds apart but I would think that you will not be able to break the regen of most bosses 15 levels below you or so in most cases with 1 group. Though you will probably live for hours =p I think you will need atleast 2 or 3 toons to chase around the main group.

I dont think you will find the mag a reasonable option for main tanking on raid bosses as they direct all the hate from the pet to the caster now (Raid bosses only). Before my first group was solid that is what I used and found it to be very difficult. So you should probably go SK for pulling/tanking. War defensive is hard to beat tho...

Thanks for the feedback Nyghteyes but I think maybe how i said being viable alone might have been unclear. I'm making this group to be PART of a raid. In my case, I'm talking a 36-42 man raid event I'd be doing. This would be a heal focused element within that raid to fill all the pieces that are missing from typical group formats. Mage and Nec's are limitedly used unless someone just had one in a group but are extremely nice to have in raid content. Shamans kind of get the shaft in group content as well as people want clerics (or cleric mercs) instead, so it becomes nitch. Again, they are extremely useful in raid content. I want this team to be capable of sustaining in some group content xp type content though if possible. Biggest fall I see is no CC for adds, so have to be careful. I have 6 groups already created with a variety of Tank/Healer/CC'r and then 3 dps/hybrid tank dps formats. This group would make a full raid level heal chain with them and some of the other group healers in the CHChain for chain roles, some for patch roles, nec and mage for mana infusion and dps assist. You see what I"m doing now sir? Too back you're not on regular server with me or me able to afford the TLP accounts. I think we would have one wrecking good time. hehehe

 

[geEQ]

Don't forget the Reluctant Benevolence AA for the necro. It is activated and will add group heals when casting dots and DDs for 4 mins at full duration iirc.
In KA

DPS9=Reluctant benevolence|95

Oh, and the necro Epic, 1.5 or 2.0 are a must if you want godly dot damage.

 

[Warl0ck45]

Random brainfarts....

Mage pet usually out taunts Nnecro pet, but I have not actually grouped the two since the recent change to pets allowing them to hold aggro again. I have put in aggro checks on my mage and necro though so they do not out aggro the tank/pet tank while dpsing.

With necro this is easy enough, have home fire off FD when his aggro is over a certain amount,say 85%

Mages have the fade AA drape of shadows (believe that is name, not at PC) plus the companion of necessity AA to escape over aggroing.

You will want to keep necro AA "reluctant benevolence" up, buff that has a chance to heal group when he casts a damaging Spell.

You will want to decide if you want to spend rumble pets, they have a high mana cost but help a lot when pet tanking.

Ass ton of pet related AA to get, holler if ya need a list.

There is like a TON of Knick knacks stuff that adds up to being helpful not sure how in-depth you want to be....

I ha e my shaman set up to cast the AE healing waves during fights when ever the Spell is up, along with group HoT, then start in on the 2 speed DoTs, 2 poison and 2magic DoTs, while also back up healing, and; f course slow.

Druid I set up to boost fire, debuff, his DD+Dot, the fire DoTs, then nukes, while also back up healing (but at a lower setting then shaman)

Clerics get a limited amount of battle cleric effectiveness. I use mine for main healer but also have him set up to toss reverseDS, retort on the MT, anticipated intercession on the MT, if mana is okay a stun or two. Against Undead mobs I also have him toss turn undead and smite undead...WARNING! They hit hard and aggro hard....set mob pcthps below 50 at least.

I generally use my necro to pull in groups like yours so there are a lot of tricks that can be done but not coded well. Using AA "Pestilence Paralysis " , which is a knock back root like the shaman Virulent Paralysis, for CC or splitting on pull. (Shaman get 2 single target lines of VP and 1 group version BTW, great for fixiing botched pulls or adds) and of course there Carapace....18 seconds of necro godmode where he can tank if needed (and if all pets die and your necro isn't the top aggro holder, you are wrong =p, or it was a short fight, heh)

I can babble on but, how much info/tips do you want?

Aggro checks on pets...if on a raid and they go over 30%, back off...

Necro tosses group mana tap when ever it is up on raid....group it depends on mana...

 

[nyghteyes]

Hot Damn Rusty, Razkle must've infected you

Shit I bet he heard his name called now.. =p


That makes more sense now. I wish I had more time to play more than one server as I have a full group on Bertox around lvl 85-90 but no clerics. So most of my info as you said is pretty much NULL

I'm interested to hear what you end up clearing up to with your team tho. Keep us posted.

 

[Rustycat]

Thank you geEQ, Warlock and Nighteyes on the feedback, this is helpful stuff!

I'm not sure how much more tips and tricks I'll want or needs, part of the struggle with the classes I'm not used to. In the old days, my brother and his G/F (now wife) played those classes so I never did. The druid, well.. I have a lot of experience with them as my original DUO when I started the game was BST/DRD without any outside program assists then. With this nitch group, think my biggest concern is how to get and hold agro on the adds so they're not just running rampant through the team turning it all into a heal feast til death. I might actually have the second cleric engage as a melee as well in tank mode so if there are adds, there's a chance they and the mage pet potentially could tank different mobs. Kind of what I do with bard and tank pulls. Bard is in pullertank mode with tank in tank mode KA. Anything on how to handle and deal with those situations on this make up in KA would be beastly appreciated!

On the Raz infecting me, well he's my untold guru of course. We have different goals in the level of groups and toons as I'm not trying to do services at all but I have conversed with him numerous times for guidance. When I decided to return to EQ, it was only because I could pay for my main character and F2P the rest of my group similar to old days. As I got into it more, i realized I truly am enjoying setting up the various teams and wanted to do larger scope things than just grind up and farm. My tid bits I've tried to contribute here and there if you go through are all pieces of the puzzle I've been putting together to reach these goals. Thus far, we're succeeding while slow in the proper direction. It makes me smile and feel good, bottom line!

Night, you ever make a set of 6 on my server and want, I'll help get you through the 80's and geared and we can do stuff's. <grin>

 

[Razkle]

THIS is NOT my fault! well, ok, maybe...

Rusty don't forget splash heals for the win!

 

[runordie]

i would swap bard for the druid, it takes away some healing power(even tho u have 2 clr shm nec lol). overall hp/mana regen(shm/nec) sustain for the group goes up. bard could snare, magi still has ds.

 

[Warl0ck45]

Depending on where, you set up, necros get mez, but it is generally level limited such to be useless at the top level zones.

Necropetscan tank, especially with magegear, just not as well as mage pets. I do not know how you would set that up for KA though.

If you are after a set up that allows you to "set and forget" you will need some form of messed, else the first wandering mob you aggro midkill will eat your healers. I personally prefer chanters, mostly because I can play them in out out of group and still get benefits, but that is just me.

 

[Rustycat]

I hear the bard and enchanter piping in and as a standalone group, they are really invaluable. Problem is the larger scope character count to a raid format. When you raid, how many chanters and bards do you typically see there? Typically even on a large scale, you wouldn't have more than 2 of either in the mix for a total of up to 4 between them right? So currently have 6 groups already formed, half of them geared (lvl 80+'s just for point of reference). One group has both bard and chanter, the other 5 have one of the other already. That's 7 of the mez classes. This is starting to make my brain hurt thinking through balance between things but likely going to have to swap out someone and it absolutely would have to be either a clr or drd. Dropping the druid makes more sense from the raid aspect in the bigger scope but the druid does sooooo much more damage than a clr in the group dynamic. LOL

- - - Updated - - -

I dont' blame Raz for anything, other than good advice when I asked. My motivations are my own, I just know where to go with questions. hue hue hue

 

[Meistro]

So all, I'm developing a special team that I do not expect to be a high DPS by any means. It's true purpose is for more raid event content than grouping but need it will have to stand on it's own along the way as well. I'm looking for feedback and things to be aware of as I have little to no experience playing a MAG or a NEC at any level of competence. The team make up is as follows:

MAG - Pet is to tank and mage do mage things with dps.
CLR - Primary healer typical for any group
CLR - DPS mode doing reverse dmg shields and nuke oriented stuff
DRD - DPS mode dots, nukes and snares (super low patch heal will be added, like 20% etc)
SHM - DPS/Debuffs mode (heals only in similar to DRD situation)
NEC - DPS mode and mana feeding

I want to actually group them once formed up and geared to run. Their end purpose is to fulfill raid level heal chain supplements using the CHChain.mac project that's in the works. Those of you with experience in teh MAG, NEC and SHM classes, can you advise any concerns, tweaks, tips and tricks to work with a group like this?

Thank you,

-Rustycat

Not sure what server type you are planning on using this on, but if its LIVE server, may want to look into swaping out the Shm for Bsr.
Bst has VERY similar spell lines (Buff and Debuff) plus the mana regen buff, and Paragon and focused paragon are nothing to sneeze at either. This option would also give you a viable 2nd tank (bst pet) and off tanks (bst and/or pet), Bst DOTs are NOW killer (Not sure on agro generation of hem as yet tho), and some of the Bst DD are very nice too. Bst has an FD (playing possium) an a couple of other AA's that help reduce agro. Bst pet has some very nice buffs that proc some good debuffs as well. Bst also has a decent player heal and an AUSOME pet heal (if bst pet is tanking) vs the mage pet heal. No, Bst can't Group heal, but it is a thought.....

 

[nyghteyes]

Night, you ever make a set of 6 on my server and want, I'll help get you through the 80's and geared and we can do stuff's. <grin>

You just never know if/when I will get sick of TLP. Will hit you up if it happens. Pretty happy there atm tho. Been able to sell enough gear to keep my teams active.

 

[runordie]

Maybe drop the magi for the bard. If you really wanna do group content use a tank merc with 2 CLR healing should be fine

 

[Rustycat]

When I get home in a little while, I'll list out the raid force and make up already in place. The mag, nec and shm are not to be changed as they would be the only ones out of all the groups in existence.

- - - Updated - - -

Hopefully this will shine light on the latest group make up on the full scope. Raid force currently compiled is as follows:

Groups - Last one is the one in question
WAR BST WAR WAR PAL SK MAG
CLR CLR CLR CLR CLR CLR CLR
WIZ DRD DRD WIZ BST WIZ CLR
WIZ BRD WIZ WIZ WIZ WIZ DRD
WIZ WIZ WIZ DRD WIZ RNG SHM
ENC ENC BRD BRD ENC ENC NEC

Looking through it in this format, I'm back to dropping CLR or DRD with DRD being most likely for either a bard or split tanker type (war/pal/sk)

 

[AutomateEverything]

Interesting. I'm not 100% how those are groups. The horizontal lines can't be groups because there aren't healers, but the vertical lines don't make sense for raid groups, either. Is that just the total list of characters?

You are extremely caster heavy, so not much point in having any more shaman, unless you plan to add more melee groups. You also already have plenty of Clerics as far as I'm concerned, and I lead raids a long time. Maybe another Druid or two since you are so caster heavy, but honestly my focus would be on getting some more melee in there to balance out your raid. And maybe another Paladin for group/splash heals. Most raids don't have the 8 Clerics you are trying to field. Most are lucky with 4-5.

 

[eqgeek]

I'm kinda wondering if you should use an enchanter, and depending on the content use the chanter to tank. It's pretty easy as long as you can make sure he holds aggro. Then you actually don't need healers to be THAT Strong and you can move to a more DPS Oriented group: ENC CLR NEC WIZ WIZ WIZ

I like having the cleric for buffs and insta-rez. ENC can mez, and with illusions of grandeur and chromatic haze, you're talking about dropping a mob in nothing flat. NEC will suck the life right out of the mobs too, plus they have back up heals and some mez.

 

[Warl0ck45]

there are raids with caster limitation, just to be annoying to set ups like yours, though if you are not hitting those, you ought to be able to melt most any target, provided you can keep the taunt up, heh.

If your mezzer heavy with your force but want to leave your 6 man group up, this is one of the reasons I lean towards Chanters. Set up an enchanter (toon 7) outside the group with a cleric merc for spot healing (or set up your healers to heal XTarget and add the enchanter... since I assume wanting to raid you have some sort of mechanism to do that) and let the raid chanter do the mezzing outside the group (plus buff it of course) You can of course do the same with Bards, but you lose a lot of the benefits of having the bard up to begin with, outside of uberfast pulling.

the advantage to having access to oodles of accounts is you can make "group+1", When PoWar came out I did a 10 man crew there farming Judicator's.

 

[Noobhaxor]

drop one of the clerics add a BST. Cleric Nuke / Reverse DS is less than a summoned free clickie pet.

When botting an event you want as much class diversity as possible. If I was going to go do raids with 1 group i'd do the following:
1 WIZ
1 CLR
1 BST
1 SHM
1 MAG/NEC
1 SK

That will give the best healing without sacrificing too much DPS. Last I checked druids still were horrible, but then again I don't see many druids these days. I boxed one for a friend during RoFear and they were utter crap.