Discussion - Paladins-are they decent these days? (1 Viewer)

[surfdog21]

What are they used for these days? Do they make good group tanks? Im thinking of raising one and propping him up as a tank for one of my groups. I saw they gave them some stuff during this last patch...

 

[Slade the Magician]

I fantasize about Paladins being great.

 

[rhb]

They get a cool flaming sword

 

[eqtrader74]

I have a 107 Pal in Conflagrant gear I'm testing out. So far they seem about equal to SK on group tanking and survival skills. On normal pulls if the healer gets killed, they can keep themselves up fine. Definitely weaker on DPS output since their abilities are self/group heals & stuns instead of lifetaps. At undead camps they really shine.

They seem to have carbon copies of the SK defensive skills = 3 mitigation discs on their own timers + Spurn. I haven't found anything like the SK's Reaver's Bargain mitigation and Pally's don't seem to have as many DPS boosts as SKs.

I'm still running him in a 6-man group, but I've read their splash heals and cures are excellent for raid setups. I paired him with a shaman healer since the Pal has their own version of the cleric HP buff. Seems to work well.

Things I've enjoyed: A second rez in group if healer dies, support group heals for the tougher named AE's, & watching a trash mob's DPS drop to zero due to stuns.

 

[Sum1]

What about AE agro for multiple mob pulls?

 

[eqtrader74]

Not quite the same "push this button = instant AE aggro" as SK, but Pallies have some. I'm doing pulls up to 4-5 and the pally holds fine. Bard in camp gets punched in the face on pulls, but that happens on SK pullertank sometimes too.

Beacon of the Righteous (AA) - "Stuns" up to 8 targets around you for 16K hate + 7500 hate/tic for 30 seconds. (1:30 timer)
Hallowed Lodestar (AA) - "Stuns" Target + 7 nearby targets for 12.5K hate + 5800 hate/tic for 18 seconds (1:30 timer)
Harmonious Blessing (self-buff) - Incoming heals from other players proc stun on Pally's target + Pally procs a group heal
Preservation of the Iceclad (self-buff) - +15% hate mod for Pally, + small defensive heal proc for more aggro

Plus they do a lot of group heals, which build nice AE aggro as they heal.

SK's "Explosion" AA aggro's are similar minus the aggro over time, but on 45 second timers. SK's Harmonious is straight AE aggro which seems better.

While not a direct aggro generator, Pally's get Marr's Salvation AA that they can cast on party members. -12% aggro generation for 16 minutes.

They may have some other things I've missed. I've been playing mine about a month.

 

[Marnan]

While taking a break from my usual group, because I'm hiding, I've been running a high AA, Conflagrant Geared 106 SK and 106 Paladin in the same group with a raid geared bard. Yeah, not the idea group, but it really lets me see the difference between SKs and Paladins (Pally has far better augs, but otherwise they are virtually identical in terms of AAs and gear). I am running them both with kiss, so to the extent my setup for one sucks, it would impact my experience.

The SK holds aggro over the Pally generally. The SK's DPS noticably and by a fairly large margin outshines the Pally. The SK has better AE snap-aggro over the course an evening of pulls. Both have very good self-healing and survivability. Both tank the shit out of everything and can compete with a warrior. I prefer my warrior, but he's in my main group and much better geared than my alt tanks.

In my particular group, pulling trash, I sometimes just summon three DPS mercs and the Pally can handle the healing given that the SK can self-heal. While I like both classes, I would choose the Pally only in a group mixture where the Pally's healing makes the difference (maybe running with a merc healer or your main healer isn't quite getting it done). I do love the Pally's ability to battle-rez; it can make the difference when things are going south.

I would probably choose an SK over a pally for most groups, but I love both classes. Also, this is in an automated Kiss-Assist setting.

 

[Hanlons Razor]

The only way I'd run a pally is if it were my main, or if I planned to do the majority of my XPing in an undead zone. Most valuable thing about SK for me is that when you overpull, get trained, or get a named mob the SK can burn DPS nearly on par with a wizard/zerker, while keeping himself alive with lifetaps. Makes those events much safer and when setup right you'll never find your group wiping when you step away.

Now running something sorta unorthadox like SK, Pal, Bst, Rng, Zerk, Brd could be kinda neat. Have your hybrids/paladin handle emergency heals and let the SK make good use of lifetaps.

 

[Sum1]

Now running something sorta unorthadox like SK, Pal, Bst, Rng, Zerk, Brd could be kinda neat. Have your hybrids/paladin handle emergency heals and let the SK make good use of lifetaps.

Only problem is your SK needs to be overgeared for the content in this scenario.

 

[dannuic]

Only problem is your SK needs to be overgeared for the content in this scenario.

I feel like a lot of people attribute SK competence to simply having great gear. A paladin in great gear will do just as well, and a warrior in great gear will probably do better.

 

[Hanlons Razor]

I only ever had group gear on my SK. Kept pretty much BiS group-attainable augs, max AAs, and chase weapon on him though. I'm sure any of the 3 tanks can tank competently, but pal/war will not compete with SK on DPS from what I've seen. IMO if they can tank just as well but do a lot more DPS I'll take the bonus.

 

[eqtrader74]

Yeah I agree with Dannuic. Gear being equal the Pal & SK are the same on tanking. Reaver's Bargain for SK is one extra defensive disc, but it does force a med break afterwards.

Warrior is much, much better at mitigation in the same gear. Besides the AC cap being higher for warriors, they just have so many mitigation disc/aa that you never use them all. Also at the moment, they seem to do great DPS with dual-wield or 2h.

Pulling 3 mobs on SK/Pal, I'm checking to make sure KA is firing a defensive disc. I need to pull 6+ before I even check anything on the warrior. However, if your healer dies, warrior only has a few emergency heals but SK/Pal will just keep on trucking.

 

[Hanlons Razor]

Yeah I agree with Dannuic. Gear being equal the Pal & SK are the same on tanking. Reaver's Bargain for SK is one extra defensive disc, but it does force a med break afterwards.

Warrior is much, much better at mitigation in the same gear. Besides the AC cap being higher for warriors, they just have so many mitigation disc/aa that you never use them all. Also at the moment, they seem to do great DPS with dual-wield or 2h.

Pulling 3 mobs on SK/Pal, I'm checking to make sure KA is firing a defensive disc. I need to pull 6+ before I even check anything on the warrior. However, if your healer dies, warrior only has a few emergency heals but SK/Pal will just keep on trucking.

If they actually have warrior competing with SK in DPS now then I'd give it more of a chance. Last time I played on live servers was TBM and warrior wasn't even in the same ballpark. Parses looked like this over very long grinds:

Combined: 1700 mobs in 14304s, 3266223k @228343sdps
ShadowKnight + pets 991565k@71321sdps (71330dps in 14302s) [31.35%]
Berserker + pets 701767k@49061sdps (49064dps in 14303s) [21.48%]
Ranger + pets 662025k@46283sdps (46283dps in 14304s) [20.27%]
Beastlord + pets 586136k@40977sdps (40977dps in 14304s) [17.94%]
Bard + pets 283839k@19843sdps (19843dps in 14304s) [8.69%]

 

[dannuic]

Wait, your SK is getting better DPS than your zerker? Something's amiss here... the zerker should be completely shoving the SK's face in the dirt with DPS...

 

[hellfyre]

The med break issues after using reaver's bargin can be offset with thought leech

 

[Hanlons Razor]

Wait, your SK is getting better DPS than your zerker? Something's amiss here... the zerker should be completely shoving the SK's face in the dirt with DPS...

Both were setup optimally with KA. Just the nature of a pullertank to have more uptime on mobs, plus ripostes/etc while pulling multiples. That parse was from Dead Hills in TBM era (level 105) killing around 300 mobs/hour so fast kills.

 

[dannuic]

Both were setup optimally with KA. Just the nature of a pullertank to have more uptime on mobs, plus ripostes/etc while pulling multiples. That parse was from Dead Hills in TBM era (level 105) killing around 300 mobs/hour so fast kills.

Ahh, so that DPS parse isn't super accurate then. I imagine the rest of the group didn't get to engage with the mobs much.

 

[Hanlons Razor]

Ahh, so that DPS parse isn't super accurate then. I imagine the rest of the group didn't get to engage with the mobs much.

They got to engage with every mob as soon as they took at least 1% of damage. Still the shorter the kills, the more the tank's DPS matters. The parse was very accurate for what I did to grind AAs, plat, and level up my alts.