Question - Another SK or Warrior thread (1 Viewer)

[boeufmaster]

Sorry to beat a dead horse on this one guys...my war is mostly cov T2 geared. I know many folks prefer SK’s, I’ve got one that’s 110 atm and I’m thinking of switching him to main.

Is the SK preferred just for more AOE taunts or is it really that much of a difference in survivability? I run a shaman heal FYI. Ty!

 

[an_image]

@fohpo when you say played, as in boxed? as in macroed? or really played? because i have played every tank i watch hp. a sk is a rollercoaster a pally is a little better and a warrior is steady as a rock. i rotate my disks/ aas i know when to hit various "oh shit" buttons, a macro just cant do that. if you have too many "oh shit" moments on a sk you just cant handle it. on a warrior i just hit another ability and just tank through it. the only reason knights tank as well as they do at all is because a dev plays one and wanted to do the "amazing" things a warrior does.

this being said, take a warrior at level 1 and a sk put both in cloth armor (if you can even do that any more) see who lives longest. see who tanks better and more targets. no tweaks. or raise a sk and dont get the sword and board aa or the 2hander. then test your tanking abilities. that will prove you could not tank till the dev wanted it on his sk. you will notice that warriors did not get heals or lifetaps because they did not need it.

@an_image well said in the overpull statement

Thanks bud, just saying...i think there's a bias sometimes to think (even with plugins) that i'll always be running around pulling as a tank..which isn't the case at all. Sometimes I just want to burn stuff, or heal...etc. From a raw survival ability/tank perspective...without sinking a fortune into anything...wars work really well. That's not to say other's won't make it as well with abilities...but that's yet another variable I don't want to deal with.

Shamans are awesome, i've got a couple...when it comes to worry free healing for me...cleric.

Bards are freaking fun and amazing...when it comes to worry free mez...(specially with the Beta Plug-in CWTN and SIC are developing) i'll take an enc... COUGH COUGH (which will be even cooler when they give me an AA UI clicky option buttons for aoe mez/slow/kick-blur...hint hint)

That doesn't mean everyone else is wrong...i'm just lazy...the less i have to sink into tanks, the more i can have fun around with the rest of the team.

 

[fohpo]

@fohpo when you say played, as in boxed? as in macroed? or really played? because i have played every tank i watch hp. a sk is a rollercoaster a pally is a little better and a warrior is steady as a rock. i rotate my disks/ aas i know when to hit various "oh shit" buttons, a macro just cant do that. if you have too many "oh shit" moments on a sk you just cant handle it. on a warrior i just hit another ability and just tank through it. the only reason knights tank as well as they do at all is because a dev plays one and wanted to do the "amazing" things a warrior does.

this being said, take a warrior at level 1 and a sk put both in cloth armor (if you can even do that any more) see who lives longest. see who tanks better and more targets. no tweaks. or raise a sk and dont get the sword and board aa or the 2hander. then test your tanking abilities. that will prove you could not tank till the dev wanted it on his sk. you will notice that warriors did not get heals or lifetaps because they did not need it.

@an_image well said in the overpull statement

I actively drive from the tank when playing, and don’t macro raids at all since I want to smash meters.

 

[da Man]

are you fully playing or allowing things to do actions for you?

 

[fohpo]

When I’m sitting at the computer , I definitely am playing.

 

[an_image]

are you fully playing or allowing things to do actions for you?

I'm usually 100% playing a couple of chars in every team, but not all of them. It depends, sometimes I like to tank, sometimes I wanna dps...sometimes crowd control/pull...sort of depends on the mood.

 

[da Man]

fohpo all i can say is learn the toon better. there is no way for a sk to out preform a warrior in agro and meat shield. the only area that they excel at is self heals since a warrior gets 2 or 3 of those.

 

[Sum1]

@fohpo when you say played, as in boxed? as in macroed? or really played? because i have played every tank i watch hp. a sk is a rollercoaster a pally is a little better and a warrior is steady as a rock. i rotate my disks/ aas i know when to hit various "oh shit" buttons, a macro just cant do that. if you have too many "oh shit" moments on a sk you just cant handle it. on a warrior i just hit another ability and just tank through it. the only reason knights tank as well as they do at all is because a dev plays one and wanted to do the "amazing" things a warrior does.

this being said, take a warrior at level 1 and a sk put both in cloth armor (if you can even do that any more) see who lives longest. see who tanks better and more targets. no tweaks. or raise a sk and dont get the sword and board aa or the 2hander. then test your tanking abilities. that will prove you could not tank till the dev wanted it on his sk. you will notice that warriors did not get heals or lifetaps because they did not need it.

@an_image well said in the overpull statement

Whining about knight tanking improvements isn’t relevant to this thread, unless you’re trying to show how salty you feel about knights and warriors being more on par with each other in their tanking abilities than you’d like. That saltiness tells me SKs/Pallys are the clear winner, since they bring more to the table than pure tanking ability.

 

[da Man]

uh huh. its not whining when its the truth. kiss does not play a warrior well, it is not as simple as clicking a tap when you hit x hp. they are very situational and they tank better, why do you think they are raid tanks? this being said if you want a tank with spells then by all means take a knight. if you want a tank take a warrior, that is EXACTLY what they are no extras needed.

 

[Raezious]

Sorry to beat a dead horse on this one guys...my war is mostly cov T2 geared. I know many folks prefer SK’s, I’ve got one that’s 110 atm and I’m thinking of switching him to main.

Is the SK preferred just for more AOE taunts or is it really that much of a difference in survivability? I run a shaman heal FYI. Ty!

I don't know if what I'm about to type is true for the newer content, but on TLPs there are many mobs that an SK just simply can't afford to take a hit from. What they have in healing cannot make up for a flurrying mob hitting them without defensive running while the Shaman is trying to a get a slow off. It should also be noted that Warriors get to benefit more from AC over their soft cap than Knights do. Meaning a really well geared Warrior will be MUCH harder to hit than a really well geared Shadowknight. I saw this come to light at an arena event during Velious on Aradune and the difference was blatantly obvious. I ended up as last man standing in a royale versus Shadowknights, Monks, Rogues, Rangers, and Paladins as a Warrior just due to the fact that Warriors are so damn tough to damage, especially with heal and regen pots. Obviously when you get a bunch of players that are raid geared spells become extremely difficult to land so that part is a bit unfair. Also, I know you weren't talking about PvP of course, but I thought that would be an interesting thing to share to understand the differences between how much abuse Warriors can handle versus Knights. In a group setting where you don't have a lot of utility classes present Knights are phenomenal of course. That's the setting they were made to shine in. I hope that helped a bit.

 

[Sum1]

I mean, the OP wasn't talking about TLPs or PVP, sooo....

SK4LIFE!

 

[wymranar]

I think what @Sum1 is trying to say is that,

1. Playing a warrior is like driving a Mclaren 720S. It’s so enjoyable yet challenging at the same time. The warrior will fit you like a glove with amazing reactive abilities similar to the mclaren’s responsiveness. Eventually, you will intuitively learn how to handle the toughest encounters, while having fun at the same time.

2. A SK is more like driving a Siemens DB BR 442 Talent in train simulator 2. You press a few buttons and it will get you where you’re going, but it’s not gonna knock your socks off. A SK will clumsily make headway while tanking a pile of mobs, but you aren’t going to enjoy the experience.

 

[boeufmaster]

Just a follow up...I leveled the SK to 115 and he’s already less spikey than the war, with 70k less HP. Running the velks mission, my healer got randomly gibbed and the SK just healed himself through the last two mobs, which isn’t something the my warrior could dream of surviving. I definitely agree that SK is the way to go for group stuff.

 

[an_image]

Just a follow up...I leveled the SK to 115 and he’s already less spikey than the war, with 70k less HP. Running the velks mission, my healer got randomly gibbed and the SK just healed himself through the last two mobs, which isn’t something the my warrior could dream of surviving. I definitely agree that SK is the way to go for group stuff.

Meh...wars > sk @ tanking. Everything else people keep blabbing about self heals, fd...etc...there’s better than sk for all of those. Take the sk’s spells away and go disciplines only like a war and you’ll fall short no matter what. I’ve tried both, still prefer a war for tanking in both group and raid content.

Trying a Paladin next...been making fun of the class for 20 years...let’s see if they‘re any fun

 

[Naeeldar]

Meh...wars > sk @ tanking. Everything else people keep blabbing about self heals, fd...etc...there’s better than sk for all of those. Take the sk’s spells away and go disciplines only like a war and you’ll fall short no matter what. I’ve tried both, still prefer a war for tanking in both group and raid content.

Trying a Paladin next...been making fun of the class for 20 years...let’s see if they‘re any fun

I don't get this statement of course if you take away spells the war is better. I play all 3 tanks in full tov t2 raid gear (i also have an SK and pal in cov t3 group gear). They all have their benefits but when you look at group game the spells on both just adds so much more value overall. I still enjoy the war and you are 100% right on the non stop discing but the heals on both is just massive there is no getting around it when it comes to grouping.

 

[Sum1]

Take the sk’s spells away and go disciplines only like a war and you’ll fall short no matter what. I’ve tried both, still prefer a war for tanking in both group and raid content.

lol, what the fuck are you smoking? This is the second argument I’ve seen for why warriors are better predicated upon waving a hand and removing certain knight abilities to make the comparison less even. Lol, of course if you REMOVE ABILITIES THE CLASS IS BALANCED AROUND the class would no longer compare well with the other tanking classes. Seriously? Or whining about devs giving knights a mitigation boost like 5 expansions ago as a way to say that warriors are better ... since they’d have been “mo bettah if not for those pesky devs.”

I mean ... lol what?

 

[Hylander]

IMO warrior is preferred in a small number of (stall tank, zero dmg zero tap) situations. SK almost everywhere else.
Warrior is dependent on strong backcourt support. SK is a self saucing pudding.
It’s hard to run a single healer group with a warrior main, even less a solo shaman healer.
SK helps himself and group enormously.

@an_image has just built my somewhat pedestrian DPS but bomb proof tank group - war,clr,enc,shm,wiz,mnk

It does everything 30% slower than my SK group.

 

[da Man]

@Sum1 you have it wrong, warriors are better , sk and pallys would suck if it werent for those pesky warrior abilities. warriors didnt get any improvement or spells BECAUSE THEY DIDNT NEED THEM. warriors tank better than both knights and they hold agro better. no way around facts.

the fact of a dev saying his sk was squishy and wanted the sword and board ability that warriors get is evidence of this. too bad so sad for those second rate tanks you knight players like so much.

 

[da Man]

@Hylander i dont even bother with cc anymore i just hit a disc and tank through adds. this is why a warrior is situational and kiss does not play them well.

 

[Sum1]

@Hylander i dont even bother with cc anymore i just hit a disc and tank through adds. this is why a warrior is situational and kiss does not play them well.

I mean, I do the same on my SK. My bard has had mez turned off for as long as I remember and I don’t split pulls lol. So... *shrug*

 

[hellfyre]

I think what @Sum1 is trying to say is that,

1. Playing a warrior is like driving a Mclaren 720S. It’s so enjoyable yet challenging at the same time. The warrior will fit you like a glove with amazing reactive abilities similar to the mclaren’s responsiveness. Eventually, you will intuitively learn how to handle the toughest encounters, while having fun at the same time.

2. A SK is more like driving a Siemens DB BR 442 Talent in train simulator 2. You press a few buttons and it will get you where you’re going, but it’s not gonna knock your socks off. A SK will clumsily make headway while tanking a pile of mobs, but you aren’t going to enjoy the experience.

You obviously don't play an sk very often if all you can equate them to is causing trains. I've been staying out of this thread because it's a personal preference which tank type everyone chooses to play.

All of them have their ups and downs. People talk like warriors are the shit but warriors also need support. If you want tanks that can survive past the group dying you want to play a knight simple as that. I could quote abilities and split hairs on the differences between them but honestly play what you enjoy and tell everyone else to stfu

 

[q8reflex]

Why not push both to ultimate level of game? You can box your War or SK on ASSIST using CWTN/RGC/KA and you can get yourself some serious dps. Both classes are great and surely depend on the sitation, they will shine. As to me, i prefer warriors but i do have some solid SKs which i use for certain roles (especially PLing). I would reach end game with both and get my own conclusion, you'll see a lot of bombarding from both fronts claiming victory over another, unless you have your own birds-eye view from above.

 

[da Man]

i mean if you need the crutch of self heals.... go for it. if you want a tank get a warrior. i do not let my cleric or the rest of my group die so i dont worry about needing heals like knights supply.

 

[Sum1]

i mean if you need the crutch of self heals.... go for it. if you want a tank get a warrior. i do not let my cleric or the rest of my group die so i dont worry about needing heals like knights supply.

So I guess you’ll stop hitting discs on your warrior then, right? ... because if you need the crutch of discs to tank ...

... logic is hard.

 

[wymranar]

People tend to gravitate towards classes that are easier and don’t require as much skill, so SK has become pretty popular.

 

[da Man]

@Sum1 well, it took a warrior disk to get you to tank recently. deflection was a warrior disc. not sure of the rest of the abilities you have other than the "oh crap i need faster heals because i messed up" that heals when you attack. or the BP that does the same thing. i mean really, if SK was so good a tank why would they need so many heals. they should do like real tanks and just shrug it off.

 

[da Man]

@wymranar i tend to agree fully, those guys only know "put 2hs on and hit tap and it dies". "oh crap i lost agro i have to hit the hate button so i can tap and outlive my cleric". if it came down to hitting more than 2 buttons they would pee themselves. i think its funny that a rank2 warrior can out agro a rank3 sk and out tank them as well.

 

[Sic]

unless you're walking into current content raid mobs at lvl 1 with no gear - are you REALLY tanking?! /sarcasm

gatekeeping is silly

 

[da Man]

lol its the simplest way to show tanking. it also illustrates the mitigation that a warrior has without multiple abilities in spam to stop this and that, the gap widens as the abilities come into play. back in those days a sk was delegated to 3rd tank behind a pally and even in some cases was called dps. it took them getting warrior abilities to become a second rate tank.

 

[Sum1]

“Back in those days...”

I’m not interested in reliving the “glory days” when our grandpa warriors walked to school in the snow uphill both ways, and I’m pretty sure no one else is, either. It befuddles me why @da Man keeps bringing up shit that happened years ago. The fact is, pallies and SKs WERE given mitigation boosts over the years (so were warriors, btw). And this argument that SKs aren’t real tanks because of the manner of their implementation (taps/life taps to augment healing) is just asinine.

Warriors are the preeminent raid tanks. Everyone knows this. But let’s not pretend that even appropriately geared warriors can go splat when their discs run out on those mobs.

The takeaway anyone reading this thread should walk away with is knights must be in a really great place right now compared to warriors. If they weren’t the warriors in this thread wouldn’t feel the need to bring up your granddad’s story of the “good ol’ days of eq.” The present reality is that in group content knights are as good and arguably better than warriors. And that’s taking into account everything knights bring to the table, since any argument that needs to whittle the terms down to make its point is just stupid.

Cheers

 

[ABDon]

There is no denying that a Warrior cannot do it's job without support - whereas an SK can do it on their own, or with very little. An SK certainly shines when their healer dies (I mean, you could try not letting you healer die of course...)

However, the vast majority of group player Warriors are simply clueless - they don't use what their mama gave them, and it shows, they make me wanna scream at my monitor - leading most folk to believe Warriors are crap in group content compared to Knights.

Reality is, for a Warrior to shine they have 30+ abilities on a constant cooldown rotation - whereas SK's can pretty much just make a mash key and "look ma, I am tank!"

End of the day, play whatever you want, they both do the job in different ways. One is just easier than the other.

 

[ABDon]

It’s hard to run a single healer group with a warrior main, even less a solo shaman healer.

I run a solo kiss shaman with a warrior, no issues at all... my cleric hasn't left the guild hall for about 6 months

 

[Sum1]

I run a solo kiss shaman with a warrior, no issues at all... my cleric hasn't left the guild hall for about 6 months

Yea, I wouldn't imagine a warrior + shaman would have issues, outside of the same situations where any tank + shaman solo healing might.

 

[fohpo]

Yea, I wouldn't imagine a warrior + shaman would have issues, outside of the same situations where any tank + shaman solo healing might.

The only real time I pull the cleric out right now is when I’ll selling All Credit to Rallos, and even then it’s probably overkill. Any of the 3 healers can solo heal group content. The biggest downside to cleric is that the other two bring offensive support while a cleric is largely defensive. Given current mechanics, the best defense is a strong offense kinda holds true, a lot can be just brute forced.

 

[Sum1]

The only real time I pull the cleric out right now is when I’ll selling All Credit to Rallos, and even then it’s probably overkill. Any of the 3 healers can solo heal group content. The biggest downside to cleric is that the other two bring offensive support while a cleric is largely defensive. Given current mechanics, the best defense is a strong offense kinda holds true, a lot can be just brute forced.

I used two healers to do Maximum Echo because it just sucks and also found that two healers was EZ mode when going for the achievements on Vulak. Since getting that stuff done, though, I've done all the missions in CoV with only the SK + Shammy solo healing.

 

[da Man]

its not back in the good ole days. its now. @Sum1

However, the vast majority of group player Warriors are simply clueless - they don't use what their mama gave them, and it shows, they make me wanna scream at my monitor - leading most folk to believe Warriors are crap in group content compared to Knights. <<<< this without question @ABWar. i would also add most wars (now days) are SK players that think you hit 2 buttons to tank well

There is no denying that a Warrior cannot do it's job without support - whereas an SK can do it on their own, or with very little. An SK certainly shines when their healer dies (I mean, you could try not letting you healer die of course...) <<< and this as well without question. maybe if they could hold agro, lol

 

[Naeeldar]

I used two healers to do Maximum Echo because it just sucks and also found that two healers was EZ mode when going for the achievements on Vulak. Since getting that stuff done, though, I've done all the missions in CoV with only the SK + Shammy solo healing.

Agree with this. I’m lazy hough I Like cleric + my sk/pal and not having to tap/self heal for the COV missions. Cleric just heals - i don’t even both er slowing Although now that a beast has replaced one ber I guess I’ll start slowing again.

I run the shaman occasioanly but my preference is the war/pal/sk + cleric + brd + 3 dps could be rogue/ber/monks/necro/ber I have 3 of each ( we’ll only 2 beast I rotate in).

 

[Naeeldar]

its not back in the good ole days. its now. @Sum1

However, the vast majority of group player Warriors are simply clueless - they don't use what their mama gave them, and it shows, they make me wanna scream at my monitor - leading most folk to believe Warriors are crap in group content compared to Knights. <<<< this without question @ABWar. i would also add most wars (now days) are SK players that think you hit 2 buttons to tank well

There is no denying that a Warrior cannot do it's job without support - whereas an SK can do it on their own, or with very little. An SK certainly shines when their healer dies (I mean, you could try not letting you healer die of course...) <<< and this as well without question. maybe if they could hold agro, lol

Where have people said warriors suck? They absolutely tank better it’s just overkill and the taps/self heals and general utility have more value in the group game then raid. I like my war if I’m pulling massive trains (when I was ore farming) but it’s just overkill in the group game compared to what sk/pal bring utility wise.

I don’t think anybody has once said war aren’t good even in this thread but maybe I’m missed it.

 

[da Man]

sum1 has come close to it. as i said before you CAN tank with a pally and a sk, if you want a tank play a warrior. sum1 also said try tanking without pressing discs, i do at times to check the mitigation. i dont see sk doing that at all. their tanking would severely suck then and you would see the full affect of spikey rollercoaster hp loss.

 

[Sum1]

sum1 has come close to it. as i said before you CAN tank with a pally and a sk, if you want a tank play a warrior. sum1 also said try tanking without pressing discs, i do at times to check the mitigation. i dont see sk doing that at all. their tanking would severely suck then and you would see the full affect of spikey rollercoaster hp loss.

I never said warriors sucked as tanks... what I did come close to saying is the trolling you've done has started to make me think a DE SK made you watch as they cuckolded someone... I don't really get it. And every time we've offered legitimate perspectives you've moved the goalposts. I think we're now at the point where you want to compare tanking abilities of naked level 1 toons, but the knights aren't allowed to cast anything.... even though that's how they're balanced. It's kind of ridiculous.

I have kissassist setup to only hit defensive discs on named fights... I'm pulling 6+ CoV trash mobs with a shammy healing without discing lol.. but okay. When I one-group raids for luck augs I'm pulling and killing 3-ish raid trash mobs at a time most of the time. My point is that knights are solid tanks these days.... so the gap between knights and warriors in 95 out of 100 scenarios is basically nonexistent. Those other 5 out of 100 scenarios involve tanking raid mobs, which is a job warriors can have because that's boring as fuck.

 

[Naeeldar]

sum1 has come close to it. as i said before you CAN tank with a pally and a sk, if you want a tank play a warrior. sum1 also said try tanking without pressing discs, i do at times to check the mitigation. i dont see sk doing that at all. their tanking would severely suck then and you would see the full affect of spikey rollercoaster hp loss.

I’ve got all 3. The Sk/Pally is no where near as weak as your stating. As far as group game goes the sk/pal are more useful in all the missions these days and tank better if you factor in AE....

As far as pulling big trains and tanking down mobs like 15 mobs in T1 for group ores - year my War wins one every time.

For me group game - ae is more dangerous than any tanking which is one reason why I lean more towards my sk/pal Although I get the war out every week also.


All 3 tanks are max aa, same gear (well i have a group geared pal/sk as well in COV t3). all have their value but whe n people in group game ask me it’s hard not to point them to the sk or in last few expansion Pal (Their undead dps is stupid).