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Question - Bard vs Enchanter (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Canddyman
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 21, 2020
- RedCents
- 401¢
I love my bard. great for melee. yes.. great for cc, yes, great for haste... buffs overall group dps.. /check... also.. they have some real nice stuff for those lil casters and seem to be kinda underrated there. Ench r great. Bards r magnifico
/cheers
ZD
I'll take 1 serious stab at this. The Enchanter is, has and appears to remain the gold standard for Crowd Control. So Enchanter. Bard gives you over haste. But the Enchanter gives you haste in the first place. Without actual haste you get nothing from a Bard. So Enchanter. If the pull goes full Lieus Roberts and every mob in 2 zones rush into camp. The Bard can Mez 1. The Enchanter has AOE Mez. Gotcha Lou. So Enchanter.
When do you ever use Bard speed besides running to zone? You don't you can't it's a shiny knob that does nothing. Lastly I get sick of hearing ADPS, seriously? A Mage with Rank 3 Spells will do as much damage. If it grabs a pet no contest. So Enchanter. And right now only Enchanter has a CTWN plugin so Enchanter. Enchanter.
When do you ever use Bard speed besides running to zone? You don't you can't it's a shiny knob that does nothing. Lastly I get sick of hearing ADPS, seriously? A Mage with Rank 3 Spells will do as much damage. If it grabs a pet no contest. So Enchanter. And right now only Enchanter has a CTWN plugin so Enchanter. Enchanter.
1. Bards give haste -and- overhaste.
2. Bards have AOE Mez.
3. Bards can buff both melee and casters procs/spells.
4. Yeah, CWTN is available for chanter, however, as I mentioned previously - there are plenty of resources to set up a very decent KA/MA ini without much hassle.
We're all in this together, and so let's try and stop spreading misinformation based on lack of knowledge or because we prefer one thing over another. We're here to help others who may not know about all the ifs and donts.
JustGlassin
Well-known member
- Joined
- May 1, 2023
- RedCents
- 426¢
Maybe im the only one who still splits pulls up, but one thing i see most people leaving out of the equation is the pulling abilities of bards. its always my 2nd slot in the team in case i need to split a pull or something, but i guess with the enchanter you likely just dont bother. If you're doing content thats tough for your group though it can be very useful. bards just super quick to split and pull. if im really trying to push exp i can manually pilot the bard and chain pull very effectively, while also maintaining alot of the buffs on the group still. definitely an improvement over having my SK pull. quicker pulls can mean more dps across your whole session
For what its worth, a KA bard is perfectly fine with crowd control in current content. I survived an 11 mob pull in current content at 120 just the other day. Did the bard have every single mob locked down 100% of the time? No. Did I have to burn some defensives on my SK to survive? Yes. But the point is, I survived an 11 mob pull, in current content, at 120, with a mostly group geared tank. An ENC may be "better" but that's good enough for me.
Edit: I can see with a warrior or Paladin who don't have some of the AE tools the SK does, where an ENC might be better on a stupid pull like that.
Edit: I can see with a warrior or Paladin who don't have some of the AE tools the SK does, where an ENC might be better on a stupid pull like that.
ArcaneProphet
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jul 17, 2019
- RedCents
- 2,003¢
If you don't have a bard, who are you going to blame all your fuck ups on? "Rock the fuck out of those drums Dale"
It's been overstated here but Bards give you literally everything.
An actual image of a party with an enchanter and not a bard.
An image of a party that has a bard.
Don't be the group getting sick from Clarity addiction.
It's been overstated here but Bards give you literally everything.
An actual image of a party with an enchanter and not a bard.
An image of a party that has a bard.
Don't be the group getting sick from Clarity addiction.
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It's easy to refute everything you tried to say because a song isn't really a buff or debuff it travels with the Bard. If we are being that technical I guess my Necros are healers. As far as us being in this together. I put my money where my mouth is literally and help as many folks on my server as I can. What do you do if we are all in this together? Besides bitch about my posts?
Jeez. Dont get defensive just because youre being challenged on your obvious lack of knowledge. Make a cup of coffee and enjoy life.
This adds nothing to the current discussion so Im done with this 'debate'.
brilucdestiny
Active member
- Joined
- Oct 30, 2022
- RedCents
- 375¢
Thank you so much for the laughs! This has made my day.
For real though, it's not an Apple to apple comparison when comparing both bards and enchanters.
-Bards are meant to be Jack-of-all-trades but master of none and they excel on this. I really love playing a bard using MQ2.
-Chanters are casters specialized in 'mezzing' and charming as well as mind buffs that last for hours. Chanters are for serious crowd control needs with their chain stuns, mez, and soothe . It just gives the group more time to recover. Not to say bard cannot do this but it's not the same caliber if both chanter and bard is played with the same skilled player.
For me... it really depends on what you are trying to do in your group or what is severely lacking.
Here's what I use to decide:
Decision Path #1:
If it is a mostly melee group, I will go with bard. (but not always)
If it is a mostly caster group, I will go with enchanter. (but not always)
Decision Path #2:
Next I look at the group composition and see what is lacking. Or rather, which one will give more value to the group?
Example:
SK, SHM, ZERKER,ZERKER, ZERKER, <I will go with bard on this one because it's mostly melee and shaman can slow and haste. So, having a chanter is does not give a better value than a bard. Plus, things die too fast for chanter to have more value than bard.>
SK, SHM, Magician, WIZ, WIZ <I will go with chanter on this one because it can provide more buffs and value than a bard can. A lot of the characters here are squishy and you will need a serious crowd control team for the oh shit moments. >
CLR,WAR,WIZ, NEC, MNK <I will go with BARD on this one even though there are more casters than Melee simply because necro requires health more than mana to get back their mana. Plus necro is gonna dot, so it will break mez. But I will not say no to chanter either. They are very very close. I used to have to manually form group and have to run these kind of mental calculations back in the KC days to ensure that we have a full viable group.>
Again, though, what you are hunting and which zone will factor in heavily on what you need despite the original assessment values.
I can hear this song in my head now!
Bards have things they do well and better.
Enchanters have advantages too.
There is also a huge difference between TLP and Live servers.
Bards are the better buffers, period. (But the buffs go after 30 seconds of death, silence, etc.)
Their ADPS is running ALL the time, and not just during burns.
Their main ADPS burn skill (Quick Time) runs 40% of the time.
Bards have no stuns (well there is lvl 59 song, Bereavement, but ..).
Their ability to CC is limited to 6 targets and one needs perfect positioning to hit all 6 possible targets.
Enchanters can CC up to 12 targets using AE stuns and AE mezzes. Their spells are more forgiving to boxed positioning.
Enchanters do more DPS during burns and their ADPS for casters during burn is superior.
One also has to consider Beastlords in this equation. They also have excellent buffs, long burns DPS and ADPS wise.
I personally use Bard+Bst for MELEE DPS groups. Bard+Enc for Caster DPS groups. Bard+Tank for alround groups (yes, tanks are CC also).
Enchanters have advantages too.
There is also a huge difference between TLP and Live servers.
Bards are the better buffers, period. (But the buffs go after 30 seconds of death, silence, etc.)
Their ADPS is running ALL the time, and not just during burns.
Their main ADPS burn skill (Quick Time) runs 40% of the time.
Bards have no stuns (well there is lvl 59 song, Bereavement, but ..).
Their ability to CC is limited to 6 targets and one needs perfect positioning to hit all 6 possible targets.
Enchanters can CC up to 12 targets using AE stuns and AE mezzes. Their spells are more forgiving to boxed positioning.
Enchanters do more DPS during burns and their ADPS for casters during burn is superior.
One also has to consider Beastlords in this equation. They also have excellent buffs, long burns DPS and ADPS wise.
I personally use Bard+Bst for MELEE DPS groups. Bard+Enc for Caster DPS groups. Bard+Tank for alround groups (yes, tanks are CC also).
lonely?
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war,clr,mage,rng,enc,wiz
sk,shm,mage,ber,bard,bst
pal,dru,rog,bard,bst,mage
not the best groups if i had it to do over again i would change several things but definitely love having a bard in group.
Playing on mischief now with sk,sham,druid,bard,ber,bst and thats going really well. Just added all the MQ2 class plugins and well worth it. I just read the bio on the MQ2Enchanter and if you have the plugin going Enchanter may be the way to go. I'm thinking about making a team just to test it out.